End the Scourge of White Supremacy

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by George Bailey, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Merely repeating your premise doesn't prove your premise...

    My posts to you (before you chose to withdraw by adopting your irritating parrot mode, to avoid a debate) show my intention to have the debate - and still have it - is clear.

    That you choose to display the (in-)famous 'snow-flake' syndrome, in the face of my proposition of 'ideological blindness' (which according to you disqualifies me from the debate) ....that's your choice....

    Prove it (by relinquishing your parrot mode; there are two ways you can do this).

    The second way is to support Rod B in a similar debate here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-right-wing’s-new-election-boogeyman.578417/page-6

    See post # 134.

    This is about the mechanics of counting votes - but note the title of the thread; apparently Left and Right can't even agree on a voting system..... ; which I consider to be similar to the debates that theologians had in the middle ages about how many angels can stand on the head of a needle. (Trump of course is very animated by the vote counting issue at present....)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  2. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, in theory, according to your source, a nation could support its population with 100% unemployment as long as it could issue its own currency. The idea is absurd on its face. Money is a reflection of value. Value is created by a combination of resources and work.


    Thanks for the links. they were informative without being preachy.
     
    Buri likes this.
  3. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Note my underlined: I assume this is a mistake, and you meant to write 100% employment, which is what am saying is possible, in all modern high production-capacity economies.

    This is important, being the basis of my proposition that real full (above poverty) employment is both possible and needed to eliminate social and economic discrimination/disadvantage in the nation, whether based on race or not.

    But read on....

    Yes, the idea that ANY economic system could create wealth with 100% unemployment IS absurd, not only on its face, but also regardless of how money is created (whether in private banks or the public (ie, government) treasury.

    Correct. Almost could not have said it better myself....especially the the 2nd sentence: the nation's wealth is in resources, productive capacity, and work.

    Money is only a reflection of value, not real wealth itself, which (for boththe nation and the individual is the possession of the goods and services that people need and want. Money itself is merely a convenient measure of value, and facilitator of exchange.

    (By now you should be acquainted with the concept of fiat money, in the post gold-standard era).

    Understanding this, it's a short step to understanding that any nation with modern productive capacity can guarantee above poverty employment, by acting alongside private sector free market production and allocation, as employer of last resort (ELR).


    Yes; now we need to see orthodox central bankers stop fretting about non-existent inflation, a hangover from their university economics lessons in the stagflation era of the 70's....and when this present pandemic is over, publicly fund a Job Guarantee, as posited in MMT.

    [I'm still hanging onto the possibility that covid-19 will force central bankers to admit that the treasuries of nations with sovereign currency-issuing capacity can create money in the public sector (ie, the nation's) treasury, without taxing or borrowing from the private sector.

    ...since the 'second wave' is threatening to become very ugly, with continuing mass unemployment as the hospitality and international travel industries remain closed indefinitely.

    With no actual shortage of food, utilities and housing, a refusal by central banks to fund the cost (to citizens) of these necessities, during a lock-down, would be nothing short of criminal.

    And so the public would finally learn that money is not a real resource, it is only a measure of real resources, and as such can be issued in any amount (in the public sector) consistent with the availability of real resources, to 'soak up' labour not required by the private sector, without causing inflation].
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Your previous posts demonstrate otherwise.
     
  5. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    No. But the Guardian article IS as confused as you.

    The global protesters supporting BLM in the US don't understand the role of economic disadvantage behind the protests either.

    Trump famously said (in the 2016 campaign, re blacks living in some inner city ghettos):

    "You are living in poverty, your neighborhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken, your young men are in prison..."

    There's the basis of BLM right there. No need to confuse the issue with race and "white supremacy" at all; it's primarily an economic issue.

    But judge Barrett's promise to uphold - to the letter (like all good Conservatives) - the 18th century US Constitution as if it is Holy Writ, not to mention her literalist reading the Bible itself, IS a problem....

    https://www.motherjones.com/politic...t-about-her-religious-group-people-of-praise/

    "She’s a member of People of Praise, a charismatic covenant community in South Bend, Indiana, that has been criticized by former members for being a religious cult. Though most of its members are Catholic, its practices, including speaking in tongues and faith healing, draw more from fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity than the Vatican".

    Similar to Pompeo with his belief in eternal war on Earth until Armageddon (as per Revelations) and the 'rapture' associated with 2nd Coming of Christ.

    The implications for government policy are huge.

    In short, "Equality before the Law", guaranteed in the Constitution, which Trump says Barrett will uphold to the letter.... is one thing.

    But the persistence of endemic poverty as witnessed in ghettos described by Trump (above) is entirely incompatible with "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"* ) because these rights cannot be accessed by those living in the ghettos so long as such conditions exist. Self-evidently, because not all are able to escape from the ghettos by their own efforts.

    Back to the Constitution: interestingly Jefferson apparently changed Lockes' original phrase from "Life, liberty, and estate" to the present words "pursuit of happiness"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_Liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_Happiness

    "According to those scholars who saw the root of Jefferson's thought in Locke's doctrine, Jefferson replaced "estate" with "the pursuit of happiness", although this does not mean that Jefferson meant the "pursuit of happiness" to refer primarily or exclusively to property. Under such an assumption, the Declaration of Independence would declare that government existed primarily for the reasons Locke gave, and some have extended that line of thinking to support a conception of limited government."

    ....which is what the Right certainly do. Hence their egregious misrepresentation of Marx, who was concerned with freeing the working class from the execrable economic servitude he witnessed, as the industrial revolution proceeded apace in class ridden Europe; eg children condemned to a life of servitude in coal mines owing to the circumstances of their social class.


    Now, fast forward to the present:

    I have an idea that the US could take a leaf out of China's book (whose economic principles are derived from, but not limited to, Marx) and achieve what China, still with only 2/3 of the US' GDP, has achieved in the last two decades, including building enough brand new fully-operational cities to house the entire US population, while also constructing the world's most extensive high-speed rail network, as well as raising 300 million people into the middle class, and another 800 million out of absolute poverty.

    Bull-dozing and rebuilding the ghettos in the US would be a trifling achievement alongside what China has achieved. And such a program would eliminate ALL involuntary un/underemployment in the US.

    You might ask yourself, HOW did China fund its massive building program with no hint of inflation, while raising per capita GDP five-fold in 20 years?

    Answer: by public sector management of the supply of the national currency in the economy, rather than limiting money supply to such creation of money as occurs in private banks, when they lend money to credit-worthy customers, in a free-market, private enterprise system.

    Note: China didn't HAVE any 'credit-worthy' customers, at the start of its massive modernization program......wakey, wakey...
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  6. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    White Nationalism is a bigoted ideology which has been popular for centuries. Fortunately now it is more covert.

    White Nationalists are against

    -- Jews
    -- African Americans
    -- Native People of Americas and Australia
    -- People of Asia
    -- All minorities

    White Nationalism is responsible for massive atrocities -- Holocaust, Slavery, Colonialism, and genocides of Indigenous People.
     
  7. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Not being an African American, I can not judge the damage done by Jim Crow Laws.

    My parents experienced a much milder version of these Laws as Jews in USSR.
     

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