England Knife, Gun, Rape Attacks and Homicide Continue Rapid Rise

Ceteris paribus. International comparisons are of limited value if you're not comparing people of similar demographics. In one of Kellermann's studies, suicide victims were compared with living people of the same race, age, and gender who lived in the same neighborhoods.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199208133270705

He found suicide victims were much more likely to have lived in homes where guns were kept than the living people they were compared to.

 

He also found that people living alone or renting were more likely to be murdered.

Why is this post on suicide in a gun control forum?

 

But the quoted fact relates to the body count. B

 

I think that might be about to change - watch Panorama tonight.

 

Arthur Kellermann has long since been discredited for the dishonest methodology utilized in reaching his conclusions.

 

Such is ultimately their decision to make. It is not the place of others to get involved with dictating to an individual that they must continue existing when they ultimately have no desire to continue existing.

 

True. That's not a reason to allow more gun control.

 

A body count that would be a lot higher if people were denied the ability to defend themselves.

 

Any mention of Kellermann renders your argument invalid. He is a discredited sham, and his methodology is cooked numbers hiding political agendas.

 

That's total nonsense, if you say guns play a part, then countries without guns should demonstrate a significantly lower rate. That's not the case because guns have nothing to do with suicide, its simply the tool employed. Honest folks recognize that...

 

Your total lack of logic would only make sense if gun ownership was the only variable that affected the suicide rate. But it isn't.

 

Two underwhelming ad hominem responses. Noted.

 

Never mind the fact that gun control laws can only affect the suicides of people who do not already have a gun and cannot legally get a gun - and then, only maybe, as people who use a gun to commit suicide do to because they know they are most likely to succeed.

 

Gun ownership is not a factor of suicide at all, that is the point. Suicide is a mental health issue, not an inanimate object issue. Guns do not increase or decrease suicides in any way shape or form. They are merely a tool, granted they are efficient for the purpose, they are neither cause or effect. Every suicide is a series of choices, one break in that chain of events is all it takes to prevent it, and inanimate objects have nothing to do with it...

 

There is no evidence to support such a claim. In fact, the evidence shows the opposite.

 

You insist on burying your head in the sand and ignoring reality. I've already linked to a study that shows you're wrong. Gun ownership does make a difference.

 

... just like trucks, busses, subways, tall buildings....

 

That 'study' is total bullshit, that's the problem, it ignores what suicide is and tries to place undo emphasis on the tool used, not the actual problems associated with mental health...

 

So what?

 

The only "evidence" that shows what you claim is discredited junk studies based on flawed methodology conducted specifically to "prove" the desired agenda's validity.

 

"Its an academic conspiracy"!!!

 

I think they feel very threatened by Kellermann's findings but know he's way out of their league. They can't intelligently critique his studies so they fall back on regurgitating anti-Kellermann talking points from sources of very dubious credibility.

 

Look at the study itself. Did Kellermann count guns brought into the home by an attacker? Did he count guns owned by prohibited persons?

Tell me this - why is the study "Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home" important for gun control? What possible law would you want passed based on the results of this study, and for what purpose?

 

The so-called "studies" of Arthur Kellermann can and indeed have been intellectually critiqued, and have been done so for decades. The entire methodology utilized was not only factually incorrect, but intellectually dishonest.

 

Says one without any credibility. Regardless of the source of criticism, if it is valid, what does it matter the source?