English – The Official Language of the USA

Discussion in 'United States' started by longknife, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. timslash

    timslash Banned

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    I think that we should be happy because our language is English, because with such "deeds" of our dear politicians(yep, i'm talking about Obama's immigration policy), soon, most of Americans will speak Spanish...
     
  2. whatukno

    whatukno New Member

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    All of this is the very definition of the term Moot Point.

    Argue your xenophobic points all you like, the truth is, that this bill will never make it past the Supreme Court.

    Why?

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    That's why.

    You can all whine, and cry, and kick your feet like toddlers being denied anything, and it's not going to help in the end. People will be able to speak whatever language they damn well want to in the land of the free.

    It's rather ironic that the same people that are totally fine with destroying other people's right to free speech are the same people that spout the second half of the second amendment as the be all end all of the gun debate.

    But there's a silver lining in it for my xenophobic friends, it's the corporation.

    Corporations don't have to abide by people in their offices speaking foreign languages, they can (and have) require that everyone in the course of their duties speak English. (except for the bi-lingual customer service reps that have to talk to customers that don't speak English, but spend American Dollars on products or services by the aforementioned company)

    Ya, aren't going to win this one my conservative friends, but nice try trying to undermine and destroy one of the fundamental freedoms of our Republic.
     
  3. bill hill

    bill hill Member

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    i WON'T PLAY YOUR "PAINT THE PARAMETERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO SO YOU CAN FILTER OUT YOUR OWN ANSWER! However, I will say that if you can't see what a borderless society without laws means to the existence of where we currently live, then we will all not know this Country and we will no longer be a place that people want to break into as they already do. Lastly, it really doesn't matter from where people come from, they can speak what they like, but that has nothing to do with having an official language. English is a world wide common language and one we have been speaking since our country was established. All in all, English should remain as it has always been the most frequented used common demoniantor amongst all people who reside here. Legally or not. My people spoke Gaelic from iRELAND. Quickly learned that English was what they needed to know to thrive and assimilate. Common sense sometimes makes too much sense, so it seams!
     
  4. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    English is relatively difficult to learn correctly, which makes it easy to spot non-native speakers.

    As that is a great help to "Homeland Security", the move to have English used as the official language may have more support than one might anticipate.
     
  5. whatukno

    whatukno New Member

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    Oh, calm down, the reason I was asking is that people born in Puerto Rico (unbeknownst to many conservatives) are in fact citizens of the United States and their first language is Spanish. And in gulf coast states many people speak Creole as their first language. I understand that many of our conservative friends are a little confused by geography and think that everything south of the border is MEXICO and every Latino is Mexican. And also, lately, somehow, that every Latino is also Arabic?.

    I get it, y'all think that when someone is speaking in another language around you, somehow you think they are talking about you. To be blunt, they probably aren't because frankly you aren't that important. But if they are, they probably are commenting on how much of a xenophobe you appear to be.
     
  6. bill hill

    bill hill Member

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    No,no..I understand quite a bit about our Country and our history as well. Regardless of Puerto Rico being acquired from Spain in 1898, and the french territory acquired in the Louisiana purchase from France in 1803 (of which both of those conquering Countries, France and Spain, brought their native language to these territories, ENGLISH, is STILL our language. What you are missing is the invitation that if you stand for everything, then you stand for nothing. We have laws that we do not enforce, thus we are not respected in that regard(border laws are a joke)...Hence we have people coming here illegally that are bringing their culture here, disregard ours and expect us to bow to their demands. The left encourage this as they want the landscape of power to shift. Once the purse strings are controlled by those that do not contribute, stick a fork in it, it's done! If we give away (language being a HUGE part of who we are) what we have fought to become, then we will have nothing left. Day by day, dollar by dollar, culture for culture, citizens for illegals, income for handouts, laws for lawlessness, will empty this place and will become the same place that many are coming from. It's really not that difficult to connect the dots. History, a fabulous lesson, has a tendency of repeating itself!
     
  7. whatukno

    whatukno New Member

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    The simple fact remains that this bill would be unconstitutional. It violates the first amendment. You are afraid of change, of this countries evolution. But even though you have yourself pointed out that wide swaths of this country were bought from France and Spain, you forget that the people that lived there primarily spoke in those languages and were only later inhabited by English speakers. Heck, many of the towns and cities in the southwest have Spanish names.

    Just seems to me like a renaissance of those places cultures. You want complete totalitarian assimilation. But that just doesn't sound like living in the land of the free to me.
     
  8. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    This echos the words of President Andrew Johnson that proclaimed in 1866. "This is a country for white men, and by God, as long as I am President, it shall be a government for white men."

    What harm comes to this nation if over time we become a nation of predominately a Spanish speaking society? Do the ideals of America change if they're expressed in English, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese or even a native language of America like Navajo?

    This belief that the political ideology of our nation is founded upon "English" is as absurd as believing the political ideology of America was founded on Christianity. Our political ideology transcends race, religion, gender, ethnic and national origin, social status, language and other invidious criteria but this law expressly attempts to impose the "English" language as an invidious criteria under our laws.

    Interestingly English doesn't even appear on a survey of the ten most beautiful written languages in the world today.

    http://www.language-learning-advisor.com/most-beautiful-language-survey.html#writtenresults

    If we wanted to select an official language wouldn't the fact that it is one of the most beautiful written languages be more important than one based on the invidious criteria of propogating WASP racism?
     
  9. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how important a criteria "beautiful when written out" is, really. Russian may be "beautiful" in writing, but it's a harsh language on the ear. And Chinese is pretty to look at, but written Chinese is hard to learn, because there are thousands of characters. It's not very efficient compared to English, which does everything it needs to do with 26 characters.

    Personally, I'd like a language with regular grammar and pronunciation rules. Pronounce the name of the actor Sean Bean to learn all you need to know about what's wrong with English. :)

    That said, the fact that English is a mongrel language that freely steals words from other languages is one reason English is a great language for writers and poets. There are so many creative ways to express a given thought, so many puns and word plays, so many opportunities to make up new words that people will understand, precisely because English is a glorious mess.
     
  10. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    In point of fact I oppose any "official language" but I had to laugh at one comment. If there is one thing Americans do it's butcher the rules of grammar and pronunciation of the English language. LOL

    What annoyed me was the "White Supremacy" proposition that America would be diminished in any way of Spanish became the predominate language in America. That is such a racist argument that it offends anyone that believes in the American political ideology.
     
  11. supaskip

    supaskip Well-Known Member

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    Likely no harm at all, why would you think so? The question is more "why do other countries already have an official language". It's really more for things like legal documents etc.

    The country will go the way that the people wish it to go. If it is a majority of spanish speakers, then there will likely be spanish speakers in a majority of congress, etc, and perhaps debate will be in spanish. Today, and in the future where there is no clear majority anymore, it is good there is an official language that should be used in such cases to avoid confusion. English, for now, needs to be known to work in a legal sense.

    Why English? Aside from it being the common language of the nation since foundation, which was founded by sons of English speakers... no real reason I suppose. ;)
     
  12. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    No other nation is based upon the political ideology of the United States. This argument that we should "lower our standards to those of other nations" is one I reject completely. I'm a person that believes in "American Exceptionalism" but it isn't based upon the actions of the United States that has all to often allowed and committed atrocities but instead that "exceptionalism" is based upon the political ideology of the United States that is superior to all other nations.

    All current official government documents are in English but should that change because we become a Spanish speaking society I'd expect translation into English in that event. I'd expect translation of Congressional speeches in Spanish into English. Wouldn't you?

    Why should the millions of Spanish speaking Americans of today be denied the same thing that I'd expect as an English speaking American if Spanish was to become the dominate language?
     
  13. supaskip

    supaskip Well-Known Member

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    1) Why would the standards be lowered? That's quite a unjustified statement that is asserted. Whilst I like to think of us as exceptional, to be the best at everything is arrogant and, ironically perhaps, would indicate we are therefore not the best at everything.
    2) Translation is fine. But what if debates, right now, were partly in Spanish? Those who cannot speak it would not be able to debate, perhaps crucial points. The same is true in reverse. If, and I don't believe there are, some Spanish only speakers in government - they would not be able to debate English points.

    Important - By giving an official language, anyone coming into any areas as important as government (or really any other areas) would be expected to know "a common language" in the interest of fairness. Now that language could really be anything at all, but it makes sense to represent the majority of the country at least, and further historical links connected to the current majority tongue only solidifies the argument for it to be English.
     
  14. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    1. Our nation was not established based upon a political ideology of invidious criteria (although we imposed invidious criteria in our laws and actions). Nothing in our political ideology advocates Anglo-nationalism (white supremacy), or religion or race or language and to impose such a limitation or condition, such as an official language violates the fundamental ideology of America.

    There are only a couple of things that the US is #1 in when compared to other nations We are #1 when it comes to incarceration per capita and we're #1 when it comes to military spending. We are probably #1 in military interventionism in the soveriegn affairs of other nations but I don't have a citation to support that claim. We can't even claim to be #1 in Liberty and Freedom which was the ideological foundation for our nation.

    2. While no elected members of the US Congress are "Spanish only" speaking there should never be a limitation of them being elected and serving in our government. The United Nations works very well with a system of interpreters that translate all languages spoken during discussions and debates so why couldn't the US Congress do this as well? Are Americans less capable than others when it comes to translating of other languages? Remember while fewer people per captia speak Spanish that Spanish is just as "native" to the United States as English with a history going back hundreds of years.

    I have absolutely nothing against a Spanish only speaking person being elected to our government. Why would I object? Only if I was a racist promoting White Supremacy would I object to the proposition that a US citizen speaking Spanish only should be denied a role in our government. If elected then we will provide a translator for them and for all other members of Congress that don't understand Spanish. No problems that I can identify with that proposition.
     
  15. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Mexicans maybe, but other Hispanics vary. Most white Cubans don't consider themselves non-white.
     
  16. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    I dont like laws that are not critical to the defense of our country or protect our rights. This law does neither thus I do not support it.
     
  17. bill hill

    bill hill Member

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    AND...under every single one of those "most beautiful written languages", which language is THE ONE that they ALL communicate on a world wide basis? I'll give you a hint..NOT one of the 10 you mentioned. Why would we want to become like ANY of those COUNTRIES. Hell, every single one of those countries STILL have their people fleeing for ours...However, when they come here, they should assimilate to who we are and not the other way around...otherwise, stay where you are.
     
  18. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    There were roughly 300 different Native American languages in the United States alone before the first Englishman even set foot on our shores. Why don't we make one of those the "official language" of the United States based upon prior precedent? Isn't about time we assimilate and learn the native language(s) of America?

    We're the immigrants!!!
     
  19. bill hill

    bill hill Member

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    I'll play...If you go back in time and check EVERY single piece of land since the beginning of time, all land has changed hands hundreds of times. In fact, in North America, the natives fought and conquered lands from other tribes many times over. My family came from Ireland, who fought England for their land. The Scotts fought England for their land. The Greeks fought for their land, the Romans, the Germans, the Pols, the turks, the Persians, the Jews, and on and on...Land is lost and won and won and lost to title holders over and over. It's history 101.
    Assimilation goes to the victors, not the losers. Again, history 101. If you do not care about your Country, then Bowe Bergdahl on over to the mid east. I'm sure ISIS will behead you gladly!!
     
  20. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    It is not a racist argument.

    Earlier in this thread another poster shared that using English brought clarity to her thinking.

    English and German (from which it partly derives) are both languages of science and clear thinking.

    IMO anyone who can actually think the support of English as an official language boils down to "racism" is themselves not thinking very clearly, and is providing an excellent object lesson for why it should be at the least given legal status of some sort.

    The idea that everyone that does not want what you want is somehow "racist" is a red herring designed to help win arguments. Just because you have bought into the lie does not mean that it is correct.

    The use of English is a firm part of our culture in this country. Almost all of our literature, history, poems, folk songs, etc etc are written in it. Additionally, other countries have found it to be useful in commerce and it is widely understood around the planet.
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I haven't found German to be too hard at all. It's systematic and predictable, just like Germans in general :D To me a difficult language has no clear rules. English is like that, actually. Lots of idiomatic variation, and spelling rules are next to non-existent thanks to all the loan words.

    Anyway, it's funny to think of English being the official language of a country that abuses it so badly. We don't take care of our language. For crying out loud, we have masses of people now writing crap like "should of" instead of "should have," and so on. Might as well make grunts and whistles official!
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    English is a very highly descriptive and scientific language and at one time French was used for Scientific Descriptive Terminology but as Latin is still used English has replaced French as the language of choice for Scientific Descriptive Terminology.

    This is simply because English has a larger number of words that can be used to be much more descriptive about specific actions or reactions.

    Now as far as it being an official language of the U.S.....I abstane from a vote on that one.

    But I sure as hell KNOW I would I have a very hard time using Spanish to decribe aspects of Quantum Mechanics.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    These are reasons why English really doesn't need to be declared an official language. It's the de facto standard for the foreseeable future no matter what.
     
  24. Drago

    Drago Well-Known Member

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    There shouldn't be 10 pages of conversation on this issue. There really shouldn't have to be a vote, but to put it into stone, yes English.
     
  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'd vote German.
     

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