Eugenics: the skeleton that rattles loudest in the left's closet

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by OldMercsRule, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't put much stock in eugenics because I believe natural selection would probably alter our intended modifications.

    There are many righty posters on this site who don't understand this.

    It seems to me that a lack of knowlege regarding history really can have some harmfull consequences.

    Shall we sterilize the uneducated?........just kidding.
     
  2. FearandLoathing

    FearandLoathing Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of minimalism before, but calling Eugenis a "social policy" is like calling Hitler a reformer.


    No right thinking person would ever characterize the mass sterilization and extermination of "unwanted" people a "social policy". That's sick (*)(*)(*)(*)ing racism repainted with left wing newspeak bull(*)(*)(*)(*) words to make it palatable.

    Social policy indeed. Tell that to the people who have tattoos on their wrists...'cause that's where the Eugenics movement ended up.

    Revisionist history is a perversion against society. L
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    We can't just let people shoot out as many babies as they want. The world already has too many people. Better to make the difficult decissions now before we have to deal with grinding poverty and the threat of mass starvation. :angered:

    http://www.allgirlsallowed.org/category/topics/forced-abortion

    India's state of emergency between 1975 and 1977 included an infamous family planning initiative beginning April 1976, which involved the vasectomy of thousands of men and tubal ligation of women, either for payment or under coercive conditions. India is now offering, under its Santushti scheme, private sector payment of 15,000 rupees per sterilisation operation and hospitals and clinics get 500 rupees extra per case if 30 cases are done on a single day in a fixed facility.

    http://news.change.org/stories/in-namibia-being-an-hiv-positive-woman-could-get-you-sterilized
     
  4. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Not at all about "Darwinism". Darwin was about evolution of the species, Herbert Spencer was the one who wrote about fitness and that was fit in the sense of adaptation for survival and not the strongest wins by killing the rest or the weak are killed. The organism that can't adapt dies out, that's the point.
     
  5. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Not a social policy? It's a policy that was introduced in many States in the US between the two World Wars. If a policy is intended to have social effect or influence then it's a social policy. The word is neutral.

    And be careful not to conflate the eugenics of the US with the extermination policies of the Nazis, the two are very different from one another. Yes Hitler got the idea from the US and the UK but he went further than even the strongest advocates of eugenics. As I said before, the Left wanted to breed them out, the Right just wants to kill them.
     
  6. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    How about the policy of encouraging malaria to kill blacks? How about the promotion of abortion to limit the growth of blacks in the U.S.? And, no, I don't need to even consider the policies of the socialist Hitler or the communist Stalin.
     
  7. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Did they try to breed a mosquito that would only kill blacks?

    Promotion of abortion to limit the growth of blacks?

    Really?

    I'm all eyes and ears.

    Hitler's policies and Stalin's policies are pretty well known, but those others are new to me.
     
  8. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Special Ed class is now in session. Which countries had, prior to DDT, malaria problems? Which countries waited until malaria was eradicated in their countries to ban DDT?

    Now this one requires some math skills. What happens to the population of a psecific identifiable group when millions of potential breeders are killed without breeding?
     
  9. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    I find it strange that you and others are associating racism with left/right wing, since I've met many of both leftists and rightists, personally, that are racist.

    But you previously suggested that abortion supporters are somehow racist due to statistics that suggest that blacks are more likely to have abortions, which is moronic beyond belief. Surely you're not a retard.
     
  10. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Bay Area Gays call White Hetro yuppie Couples "Breeders" not Single Pregnant Black Teenage Girls.
     
  11. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    I need to put you on ignore because you never make any sense..but I don't like putting people on ignore because I always get an insatiable curiosity about what they said whenever I see their hidden posts..not that I'd most likely ever see anything worth reading from you.
     
  12. AbsoluteVoluntarist

    AbsoluteVoluntarist New Member

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    There was a time hwan the left was also supporting such things as prohibition, massive warfare (WWI), and strict regulation of sexuality. Oh, they've switched things up over the years. They're nothing if not inconsistent. Of course, left and right are really meaningless terms. The "right-wing conservativism" of men like Bismarck was a great inspiration to the so-called "progressive left" a hundred years ago or so. Yet, they'd rather pretend they have something more common with their old nemeses the Jeffersonian classical liberals. And so it goes.
     
  13. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    Jefferson owned slaves.

    I don't think it gets any more "pwned" than that..
     
  14. AbsoluteVoluntarist

    AbsoluteVoluntarist New Member

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    Yes, Jefferson owned slaves. No one ever said Jefferson was untainted. But he was a classical liberal who helped grow and expand that positive tradition. He was actually relatively opposed to slavery, as an 18th cenutry plantation owner goes. He tried to have it written to the Declaration of Independence, for example. His generation of slaveholders, flush with a relative love of liberty managed to abolish the slave trade and they were deeply conflicted by it, while later generations called it a "positive good." My favorite quote is from Patrick Henry:

    I don't think we should let the great flaws of Jefferson, Henry et al utterly crowd out their accomplishments and positives words and deeds.
     
  15. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    ah, he just couldn't live without slaves eh? lol. He also raped a lot of slave women, but shhhhh.

    Anyways, Jefferson wasn't an anarcho-capitalist as you are. Just saying.
     
  16. AbsoluteVoluntarist

    AbsoluteVoluntarist New Member

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    Who said any of that not me. I said his warts sholdnt crowd out his accomplished. Also no proof that he raped Sally Hemmings or any one else so far as I know.
     
  17. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    Remember, this was just about me mentioning that Jefferson wasn't truly, at spirit, a "classical liberal", unless of course, you define a "classical liberal" as someone that doesn't practice "liberty".

    Then again...that's the thing. "Liberty"/"freedom" are defined in very different ways, depending on who you ask. Namely, whether you ask a right or left winger...or a centrist, such as myself.
     
  18. AbsoluteVoluntarist

    AbsoluteVoluntarist New Member

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    Okay, I understand. But I don't know that you can consider Jefferson not a classical liberal in spirit, at least in his more radical younger days. It's very difficult to get into the mindset of people at that time. One thing to consider is that (a) giving up your slaves would be like giving up all your modern conveniences today, washer-dryer, etc and (b) many freed slaves suffered great persecution wherever they went anyway. These two considerations would have been great temptations for even a true believer to rationalize that keeping them would hve been preferable to freeing them all in all.

    Does it jsutify it? NO. But I think on that note I'd characterize him as a classical liberal with weak willpower rather than not being one at all. But that's just my opinion of course. I still hold a flame of admiration for him, while admitting all his flaws and failings.
     
  19. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    Well I'd say the more pertinent thing is now: what is the true definition of "liberty"?

    If you could give an objective answer for that (which you can't, I can tell you right now)..that'd end almost EVERY SINGLE ONE of the debates on this forum.
     
  20. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Not much value in judging people's actions in the past by today's moralities. Slavery was cheap labour, it underpinned a developing economy. We regard it as immoral, they probably regarded it as indispensable and necessary.
     
  21. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    ...London Bridge has already been purchased by an American, thank you.
     
  22. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Significantly, Republican Nixon is the only president who called himself a Keynesian.

    No surprise considering how Margaret Sanger's chief financiers were all Republican.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was "kind of" the law of the jungle but it was not that anyone perceived as weak should be killed... some did argue that the poor should not be helped.

    I will try and give a short summary from memory.

    Mendel's selfish Gene theory proposed that all we are is in our genes .. environment has little to do with what we become.

    The natural order was that the superior genes would rise to the top (survival of the most fit) .. the order of society was also structured this genetic propensity for survival

    those who were at the top were there because of this natural order .. they were there because their genes were superior.

    Any tampering with this societal structure (by helping the poor for example) was tampering with the natural order and therby harming the advancement of society

    Hierarchy in society is justified by this theory .. that it is the natural outcroping of the fight for genetic supremacy.

    The flaw in this theory is that there is no guarantee that the King's son will not be an idiot. There is also no guarantee that the King got his position in the first place because of superior genetics.

    Genetics is a probability game .. inheritance of traits is a lottery. This does not mean that ones genes do not play a role .. indeed one can only play from the hand that one is dealt, but the hand ones father and mother were dealt can be vastly different from the hand that their children get dealt.

    Evironment has been shown to play a critical role. Even if one has the best genes possible, the potential for greatness will not be unlocked unless suitable environmental conditions are present. "At minimum a semi functional environment".

    Hitler did not arise out of a vacuum. Anyone who was anyone in among the so called civilized nations at the time was on the Eugenics bandwagon. The list reads like a who's who of the 1930s.

    Hitler took Eugenics on a wierd tangent that had little to do with the basic principles of eugenics. His final solution did target people based on their genes .. but it was not targeted at the good Genes.

    One look at a list of the world chess champions over time and you will find that list littered with Jews ..Steinitz, Rubinstein, Nimsovich, Lasker, Tartakower, Tarrasch, Lowenthal.

    Jews were also very successfull .. meaning in Eugenics this was because they had good genes.

    Hitler clearly did not understand the eugenics theory very well. Some of the greatest scientists were German Jews .. Einstein, Oppenheimer ..

    Everyone jumped off the Eugenics bandwagon after the war .. but the theory lived on.

    It was renamed "Biological determinism" !

    Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were some of the prominent adherents whose names folks should recognize.

    Social engineering is not necessarily related to eugenics or its flawed theories although any mention of the term automatically gets demonized as Eugenics due to Hitler and Hitler really was not a very good Eugenicist to begin with.

    Just a few thoughts ..
     
  24. OldMercsRule

    OldMercsRule Member

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    As a Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Commie/Statist spewin' false hateful propaganda you can "say" any old thing...... :fart:

    That surely doesn't make the garbage ya type true. :rolleyes:

    Cornservatives are much more likely to judge a person based upon their character then the color of their skin...

    It is the Lefties who view the world through an obviously waycist prism.... It takes only one functional brain cell n' one functional eyeball ta see that plain fact. (N' a brain clear of the fog from Commie kool aid that Lefties luv ta cornsume).
    :eye:


    I guess ya think yer quite the mind reader, eh?

    Ya know exactly what is in the hearts n' minds of anyone ya disagree with I see......... burp......

    pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft... sorry a little sneaker, (it will add a weeeeeee bit to the green house gas yer spewin')....
     
  25. OldMercsRule

    OldMercsRule Member

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    I wasn't talkin' 'bout the London Bridge: sports fans! :eyepopping:

    Here in bright blue, (that means very Liberal), God's Country, (Seattle metro), we blew up a perfectly good n' very strong domed stadium with a brand new $70 million dollar roof, (after the Liberal voters rejected replacing the "Kingdome"), n' borrowed money we didn't have ta build two of the most expensive stadiums in the world, (at that time), butt: we couldn't and can't afford to fix the "Alaskian Way viaduct" that nearly pancaked us in 2001 durin' an earthquake, (very similar to the Oakland freeway which pancaked in 1989), nor can we afford to replace one of our floating bridges that was badly compromised when BJ Clinton was inaugurated in 1993. :fart:

    Liberal/Progressive/Socialist/Commie/Statist pols are reeeeeeeeel smart aren't they?
    :rolleyes:

    BTW: the bridge I'm sellin' floats!!!! :nana:
     

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