Europe at war - invoking article 5 of NATO?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by janpor, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Several questions.

    Since France says the recent attacks are an act of war - will they invoke article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty?

    I think they should. Since budgets are stretched, I don't mind my governement to levy a special tax to pay for the war.

    So-called "returnees" should be arrested -- no exceptions, and should be trialed, not in the civil court system, but appear in front military tribunals.

    Most interesting are the recent developments inwhich the West has pacified her relationship with Iran.

    I always liked Iran. These people are religious, but are modern at the same time. You can do business with these people. Now that we have a new ally, it is time to ditch the Saudis -- they are supporting radical Islamists around the world.
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Just a guess, but I don't think France is going to invoke Article 5. That would require the French to take this seriously, and based on the Charlie Hebdo attacks, the Je Suis Charlie and all that, they only want to take it seriously for a few days, then go back to normal (until the next attack). The French may bomb some patches of desert over the next few days, but they don't want to do anything more. They're too busy importing refugees to be distracted with anti terrorism.
     
  3. Supreme Allied Condista

    Supreme Allied Condista Member

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    Sure. An attack on one, is an attack on all.

    The problem being with Europe's internal open borders and external porous borders, the police can only guess at who has gone to Syria to join ISIS and who has returned from Syria to fight against us for ISIS. Do you want the police to guess that you are just back from Syria and put you before a military tribunal?

    The Iranian people are nice enough. It's the Iranian regime which needs changing.

    Agreed. Seize their oil tankers and TV satellites as a first move to helping the Arabs dig that ditch.

    Well let's invoke it for them anyway. They shouldn't have to ask.

    Well Hollande took the jihadi threat to Mali seriously enough and sent in French forces. Let's see. Anyway, we ought to at least put some military plans on the table for consideration.

    Condoleezza Rice on Fighting ISIS.

    WKRG News video - Condoleezza Rice on Fighting Isis

    "France wasted no time fighting back against Isis, dropping 20 bombs on the terrorists’ headquarters in Syria. “Many of them are European passport holders. A few hold American passports”, said Former Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, in Birmingham Monday.

    She said more needs to be done against Isis, especially from The United States, “We have to step up our military activities…They don’t hide in caves like Al-Qaida. If CBS News can find them, the American military can find them. We have to get very serious about destroying them in their homeland.”

    Rice says she’s a great defender of civil liberties, but, “We also need to recognize that we need our governments to be able to conduct surveillance against terrorist targets. You don’t want to wait until something happens to catch or kill a terrorist”.

    As far as Syrian refugees, she says a safe haven for innocent Syrians needs to be created in and around Turkey and Jordan."

    U.S. must step up attacks on ISIS in its homeland, Condoleezza Rice says during Birmingham stop

    During a Q&A session, Rice was asked how she would address ISIS if she were president.

    Rice responded by saying there's no tougher job than president of the United States, and she recognizes how hard the choices can be.

    But she said it's crucial to defeat the group, which has claimed responsibility for the deadly attacks in Paris on Friday. She added that many people who make up ISIS are European passport holders and some are U.S. passport holders, and that makes them a threat to the U.S. homeland.

    "We have to recognize that we cannot allow, in the 21st Century, a group that is so brutal....to occupy a territory between Iraq and Syria about the size of Great Britain," Rice said.

    Rice also noted that French authorities are very good at counter-terrorism, and the fact that they could be surprised in this way suggests a level of danger that even she did not know was possible.

    In addition to stepping up U.S. military operations where ISIS lives, Rice advocated the use of government surveillance against terrorist targets and cited the need to create safe havens in the area of Turkey for innocent Syrians fleeing the violence.

    "We cannot sustain the number of migrants flowing into Europe," she said. "We must stop the flow by making them safe in their own homeland."

    Rice, who served as secretary of state and national security advisor under former President George W. Bush, said during her speech that transnational terrorism is a key threat to free markets and free people around the world.


    More quotes in Rice for President Yahoo Group message 2290

    Condista fan video

    Condoleezza Rice for NATO. One for all and all for France.

    [video=youtube;AELt1gruyPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AELt1gruyPc[/video]

    Condista battleplan & strategy.

    TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN
    TAKE RAQQA BATTLEPLAN - by Supreme Allied Condista - Newsvine

    - that's a link to my plan for a NATO-planned, Turkish-led armoured invasion of northern Syria to take the ISIS capital of Raqqa.

    [​IMG]

    So I think 10,000 US ground forces and the same again from European NATO countries should be sufficient to stiffen the backbone and the resolve of the Turks, given them assurance that al-Assad Syrian military and the Russians will be deterred from interfering with a Turkish-led ground invasion.

    I note that Wikipedia describes a Turkish 3rd Corps which is a NATO Rapid Deployable Corps.
    3rd Corps (Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    So I'd be happy to recommend Turkish 3rd Corps as they seem, on paper anyway, ready for such a mission.

    However, I would not trust the Gulf Arab kingdoms to quit sponsoring ISIS and associates behind our backs and start genuinely fighting ISIS unless the US and allies would seize control of Gulf oil tankers and Arab TV satellites and effectively regime-change them too.

    We need Arab coalition partners which are genuine secular democracies, not like Saudi Arabia - state-sponsors of jihadi terrorism from whom we buy oil and sell them arms and turn a blind eye to what they are up to behind NATO's backs.

    Therefore I do also have a more comprehensive strategy to recommend.

    STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS
    STRATEGY TO DEFEAT ISIS - by Supreme Allied Condista - Newsvine

    1) Overall strategy - the West needs to apply the Bush Doctrine to all state-sponsors of terrorism - Saudi Arabia & other Gulf monarchies, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, Iran and other dictator states - regime change them all.

    2) Use stand off techniques more robustly - such as seizing control over state-sponsor-of-terrorism satellite-TV broadcasting (often supplied to Arab and North African state broadcasters by European satellite TV companies) and turning that propaganda weapon around and using it to promote democratic revolution through-out the region.

    3) Impose the West as sole agents for all oil tanker export sales out of the Gulf. Seize all oil tankers exporting oil and sell the oil, depriving regimes of oil profits.

    4) Now once you have an overall strategy in place, then you can look at specific military actions. Bombing prestige regime targets or threatening to if Al Baghdadi's head is not on a spike within 48 hours.

    5) Partition Iraq & Syria. Iraq looks like it has to go three ways - Shia, Sunni & Kurds. If the 3 new states all want to join up together in an Iraq confederacy or union of some kind of their own free will, that's fine too.

    6) Establish Western military bases in Iraq & Syria for training up the local armies. Better if we can supply them by sea or air rather than by long land routes which can have supply routes attacked by road side bombs and ambushes.​

    And once again, I recommend that we appoint Condoleezza Rice as NATO Secretary General or United Nations Secretary General and give her overall political command - in which case I'd be happy to serve as one of her military commanders.
     

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