Europe needs to increase its defence spending

China spent most of the 20th century in the dark ages. Look at China under Mao and his genocidal political programs like "The Great Leap Forward" and the "Cultural Revolution." It's estimated that 40-70 million people died in China in the mid-20th century.....definitely not a first world country. Even now their per-capita GDP is miniscule. If it weren't for their absolutely massive population, their economy wouldn't be of much significance. On a per capita basis they're nestled right between El Salvador and Turkmenstein. China was a great and advanced civilization.....hundreds of years ago.

You're very naive if you think that China only focuses on it's own country. In the last decade or two they've been very active around the world, especially in dealing with totalitarian regimes like Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Pakistan etc.

China DOES NOT have close military ties with India. The two countries have been at odds for decades and are military competitors. They do buy a lot of weapons from Russia though.

I'm going to ignore your political grandstanding and borderline racist comments so that we can stay on topic.

 

The Chinese are a lot less active than America in terms of Foreign Policy and they generally do not get involved beyond diplomatic efforts in relation to conflicts outside of the Asian region.

In terms of the Chinese they have a long tradition of being a very highly educated and civilised nation and are one of the great ancient civilisations. There have been turbulent times in their history but this does not mean that modern China is somehow in the dark ages or is culturally or institutionally inferior to the West, indeed modern China is far more open and commercial, and such changes may well lead to greater democracy given time.

If you look at the vast Chinese cities springing up and the vast change taking place within modern China you will see a country that has the potential to be a world leader, and GDP per capita is rising as fast as the mighty chinese economy.

China has developed close ties with India and other BRIC nations (BRIC Summits), and has also developed ties through Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (which India recently became a full member of). Today, China is India's largest trading partner, and has recently reverted its stance on India's bid for a UNSC seat, after Chinese assistant Foreign Minister Kong Quan formally declared that China will back India's UNSC bid. In spite of its own growing domestic needs, India is a main seller of Iron ore to China, and fills the desperate need of natural resources for the nation. China and India now have close economic and military ties. In 2005, China and India announced a "strategic partnership". Both countries are increasingly holding joint military exercises and India is a signatory to the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7153179.stm

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article1691480.ece

http://inchincloser.com/2011/05/19/india-to-join-sco-have-a-stronger-say-in-central-asia/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation


I don't share the American opinion that only America should be able to impose their will on the world. China may be modernising it's armed forces but their Defence spending is still no where near the vast proportions spent by America.

As for being racist, are the Americans a race and does criticising American Post World War 2 Foreign Policy really constitute racism.

 

Only Chinese talk like that. Where do you live in China?

 

I am not Chinese at all or indeed Asian. I don't think criticising US Foreign Policy somehow makes me Chinese.

 

Redneck is a derogatory term for poor white Southern Americans. It makes you sound stupid to use the term......though I commonly see a lot of elitists use it, particularly liberal ones.

 

I know full well what red neck means it's usually associated with small minded insular farming communities especially those within the mid-west farm communities.

I am not an elitist, I merely disagree with US Foreign Policy and agree with the sentiments of social commetators such as Andrew Alexander, as well as the populations of areas such as Vietnam and Cambodia who were bombed in order to be saved by the Great United States.

There is a rumour the Chinese have WMD's, perhaps you best attack them and find out, whilst saving them from themselves.

 

Europe can't afford it, since they have social programs that make spending more impossible.

 

True...........here in the UK under the previous Labour goverment of the last decade so much was spent and wasted on social programs, it defies belief.

 

The US, the UK and the EU need to get our fiscal houses in order.

 

Global politics aren't black and white.

 

The US has social programs such as medi-care as well as having the worlds largest prison population and prison industrial complex, and then there is the military industrial complex which accounts for half the worlds defence spending.

It's little wonder the US Budget defcit is so vast and the US credit rating has been downgraded.

 

That is nice, but is a crock of coprolite.

The fact that we have prisons does not make people go out and commit crimes. They do so because they are criminals, plain and simple.

Break the law, go to jail. It is just that simple. And I do not care who you are, you break the law, go to jail. Break the law multiple times, go to jail for 25 years to life.

Instead of asking why we have so many prisons, maybe you should ask why some people have this need or desire to break the law all the time. Why they have to thumb their nose at society that pretty much allows them to do whatever else they want to do.

 

And the credit downgrade has nothing to do with defense spending. In fact, that has been pretty flat for the last 6 years.

The credit and debt issue is because of the runaway entitlement spending, up well over 150% in less then 3 years. On top of that a $2 trillion stimulus giveaway that made no jobs and over doubled the debt all by itself. And that did not go to the military, trust me there.

 

So, the US should be locking up parking violators?
If you are going to be so simplistic about crime why not?

Many states now spend more on criminal justice than on education. Maybe they should just eliminate education spending and toss 20% of the children in prison right away.

 

The US does not lock up parking violators.

However, if a person refuses to pay the fine or go to court, then they are locked up for that. So indirectly you can make a claim they are locking up for "parking violations". However, they are locked up in reality for refusing to obey much more serious laws the parking violations.

And once again, if there is "excess spending" in the criminal justice system, then that needs to be brought up with the criminals. They system does not make criminals, they make themselves.

Stop trying to derail the issue. The issue is not spending money on criminals, but the fact that they are criminals in the first place. People that follow the laws do not have this problem, only the scumbags that feel that they have the right to break the laws. And personally, I believe that I have the right to live without them violating my safety and personal property.

Keep them in jail for 10 or 20 years, I consider it money well spent. Maybe if they learn how to become productive citizens and not infringe on the rights of others, then they can rejoin society. Otherwise, let them rot.

However, if you have some kind of proof that the government is locking up people for simple parking violations, I would love to see it. Any references, or is that jsut over the top coprolite?

 

Warship magazine?

Lolololol lolololol. Omg. Warship magazine?

Hahahaha. Holy (*)(*)(*)(*)ing pathetic.

You war mongerers are a sad bunch.

The US pay for your peace? Haha, the amerikan people are too stupid to pay for peace. They pay for tyranny and death so bankers can make money.

You should know this, the tactic originated on that side of the planet.

 

so americans are more likely to be criminals than people in ALL other countries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

 

Yes.

Because the US has a culture that is becomming more and more broken.

When you have large groups of people encouraging others to break the law, that simply creates more criminals.

When you have a large segment who tell people that illegal drugs are OK, then you have a problem.

And when you turn the prison system into a slap on the wrist, then you simply encourage more criminals.

I am curious, how many people locked up for murder is to many? How many locked up for rape is to many? Maybe we have to many child molestors locked up, and we should kick some of them out of jail.

Criminals are criminals, and should be locked up. You do not just let some go because there are to many people in jail already.

Of course, we could do like many countries do. Stop with the long term and life long incarcerations, and just execute them.

 

Thanks for your contribution to this forum.......NOT!

 

the same can be said of a lot of places.

why are you more criminal?

there are only four countries that have more executions than you do:

China, Iran, North Korea and Yemen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#Global_distribution

 

I entirely agree that Europe is underspending on the military. It is absilutely absurd that an Island nation like the UK will not have a carrier for 10yrs....

I have heard rumours that our second planned carrier (HMS Prince of Wales) will be sold to the French. I have asked my MP and the MoD several times about this and nobody can give me a straight answer so I assume that the rumour is correct.

We are currently the only permanent member of UN Security Council without a carrier and the army numbers are to be reduced to pre-Boer War numbers after Afghan withdrawal. How long does Mr Cameron think we can keep our permanent seat?

The current UK Government came in with a track trach agenda; deficit reduction. A worthy aim and one that needed doing but destroying our defence is not, in my opinion, to be done at the expense of leaving us defencless.

 

The UK defence problems really got worse under the previous Labour goverment.
Blair and Brown never did adhere to the defence review of 1998 which set out what the UK defence requirements were, and for the first decade of the 21st century, defence spending was remained at a low level, in comparison to the huge increases other goverment departments got.
During this period Labour ordered only a few new warships, yet scrapped a lot of very good warships including 3 modern Type 23 Frigates which were only around 10 years old.
We were supposed to of got 12 Type 45's, that went down to 8, now only 6.
Strange thing is though during this time Wingnut Blair was quite happy too send our troops to war in Iraq, but his partner Gordon the gofar Brown wouldnt give our troops any extra cash for the required equipment.
During this Labour term the goverment squandered billions of pounds on useless projects which either never saw the light of day or didn't work, such as ID cards.
They even spent more on those bleedin useless quangos and focus groups than they did on defence.
Defence is always an easy target for cuts, as the assets can be seen.....you cant cut assets in other goverment depts because the money is invisible in the admin systems.
I did vote Tory, as i hoped they would ring fence defence, but obviously when they got into office and saw the financial mess Labour had left the country in, then i see they had to make cuts, its sad, but hopefully by 2015, the goverment will be able to increase defence spending.
I too believe that the goverment should of allowed the navy to retain some harriers and Ark Royal until the new Queen Elizabeth class carriers are built.
Personally i think it will be a disaster for the Uk if we sell the second of these new carriers, but i'am hopeful that by the latter part of this decade the countries finances will be in a better state.

 

Europe needs to get it's spending under control and not collapse.

 

True.........but the US started the ball rollling.

The UK for one is taking steps to cut its deficit.
We kicked out our Labour goverment that ruined us.

Whats worrying is the US is continuing to spend, spend, spend until the country implodes, and then takes down the rest of the Western world with it.

I get the impression the $15,000,000,000,000 US debt, has got so far out of control, that no one knows how to really deal with the situation.

Meanwhile the Chinese are sitting in the wings, waiting for the inevitable!

 

Everyone gets caught up the in the big numbers. The U.S. economy dwarfs every other country on earth. 15 trillion seems like a lot, but in reality is the same or less than half a dozen european countries. The U.S. also has the added advantage of being able to leverage itself at a much cheaper price than any other country. Is the deficit a problem? Of course, but don't get caught up in the real numbers. 2 of the world's 3 credit agencies still consider the U.S. a AAA country and governments and investors around the world continue to purchase U.S. treasureys at a high rate.