Europe To Send Conspiracy Theorists To ‘Reeducation Camps’

Holocaust and 9-11 deniers are governed by such a lack of logic, such hatred of facts and science, such loathing of rational thought, that re-education could only help them

 

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -the essence of free speech

To all the people defending this authoritarian garbage, you need to quit hiding exclusively behind the Nazi/Holocaust thing and address the REST of this horrible oppression.

1. Group libel.
In many countries, there is no "truth defense" against libel. So if a "group" (Muslims, politicians, clowns, axe murderers) does bad things, you can't write about it, period.

2.Overt approval of a totalitarian ideology, xenophobia or anti-Semitism
Who is to say what is totalitarian? In my book, any country with a law like this one is totalitarian, so obeying this law is oxymoronic.
Xenophobia? So if you think the Muslim rape gang that just moved into your neighborhood from Syria is bad, the law attacks YOU.
Anti-Semitism? We have seen how any disagreement with Israel's actions, or certain Jewish groups, has been deemed anti-Semitic by some. It's clearly in the eye of the beholder.

 

holocaust denial very often takes the form of massive libel against the Jewish people.

that is one reason why its illegal in many places.

it also is often part of an agenda to revive Fascist and other anti-democratic/terrorist forces.

 

I was not making an ethical point at all (and I'm not a relativist, I'm a non-cognitivist; go figure). I was simply saying that by suggesting that fascists, Communists etc. need to be re-educated, you are, ironically, doing exactly what they did. And arguably, the fact that the leaders of fascist and Communist (note my capitalisation) societies needed to recourse to "re-education" was precisely because their ideologies were so weak that they had no other way to counter criticism. Surely, if your ideology makes more sense, you would not need to recourse to such things.

Education in schools does not count as "re-education." The re prefix should be a clue there. Supposedly, in liberal thought, people's rights to have their own opinions and not be forced out of them once they have already been formed are fundamental. In practice it doesn't always work like that.

This isn't intended as a slur, but you sound a little more authoritarian than the usual "Western values" type.

 

So you can't stop hiding behind the Nazi/Holocaust part of this much broader legislation. That's what I thought. You simply take the risk-free position of "Nazis are bad" and use that to deny free speech on any number of unrelated issues (or issues with tenuous and shallow links like the one you just gave).

 

No, because their crime was not re-education, but other things. There is nothign wrong with re-education per se. you might as well say that building roads is bad because hitler buiot the autobahn.

that assumes people are smart enough to understand the ideologies.. Which I don't think they are.

yeah, I probably had general state propaganda in mind when I wrote that..

That's very overrated to be honest. I actually care more about society functioning well, and much less about people's freedom to believe stupid things. What people believe affect how the act. it is in everyone's interests to make sure that too many people don't get too stupid ideas.

I probably sound like that yeah. and okay, I might be a tad more too. it sounds worse because I don't bother dancing around truths.. We already have state propaganda in school (and it's necessary), the state is built on force and coercion (but necessary), etc... I don't pretend otherwise.. You'd probably be suprised how libertarian i can be on other issues.. but speaking of authoaritarianism, I actually did two tests on that today.. I scored in the middle, i.e. normal. not a fascist but not a hippie either.

 

Again, I'm not saying anything is bad; I'm saying that it's ironic that you're decrying fascists and Communists and then proposing to use their own tactics against them, rather than merely letting the best ideology win.

I dunno, they're not that complicated. And people can generally tell when a way of running a society is beneficial to them and when it isn't (which is why resistance to the Nazis increased substantially in 1944, for instance). If their consciousness is somehow obstructed, it's precisely because of things like re-education.

Yes, but that's not adherent to Western liberal values. They're stupid values, but re-education programmes contradict them.

I would disagree (if by necessary you mean ultimately necessary, rather than necessary in order to preserve capitalism) but I appreciate that you're not in denial like some liberals. Are you familiar with Michelsian elitism? It might appeal to you somewhat.

 

i don't consider it to be "theirs".

I think you overestimate the people.. As a communist, what other conclusion could you draw by looking at the US right now?

western liberal values perhaps, but I don't really care much for the liberal part. if by liberal you mean what it means in the US. I like how western countries work.. I would like to keep them working like that. Some measures might be needed to make sure they do. The difference is between those who would allow democracy to destroy itself, and those who are willing to make changes to preserve.

Force is necessary for any kind of organised society. Other option is chaos and anarchy. it's necessary for capitalism, but not only for that.

No I havent heard of it. Who is michel?

 

Putin's popularity among Russian citizens is currently around 80%... Wanna re-educate 130mln russkies?

 

You still don't get it, do you?
It's statism that is corrupted. It can take the form of religion or communists, but the result is the same.....oppressive government tyranny.

 

God yes, they defeinitely needs re-education. But I had western countries in mind..

 

Yes, I believe in the Holocaust.

However not all Holocaust victims were Jews, there were also Polish, Ukrainians, Gypsies, and Homosexuals.

A fact that is often neglected.

The Holocaust was not the biggest genocide done by Hitler.

More Russians were killed than Jews were by Hitler, with up to 28 million Russians killed during WW2.

The fastest killing genocide during WW2, was of Soviet POW's, not the Holocaust.

Another fact, we rarely hear about.

 

That's like saying to be a Capitalist, you must support ALL CAPITALIST REGIMES.

Do, you support the Capitalist British Empire of the Victorian era?

When food exports were increased from India, and Ireland to allow millions to die in famine, for the Capitalist profits of the British ruling elite?

Well, by your logic, you must support that.

You must also support segregation, and lynching against Black people, because that happened in Capitalist America,.

 

Blaming Poland for the Holocaust is an even more massive libel against Polish people.

Considering Polish Catholics died in the Holocaust too.

Considering that Polish Catholics had the highest number of Righteous Among the Nations who risked their lives save Holocaust Jews despite t a Nazi death penalty.

But, that doesn't stop many people, including a good deal of Jews, and Liberals from blaming Poland for the Holocaust.

Yet, when Poland is going to enact a law to prosecute blaming Poland for the Holocaust, many Jews, and Liberals alike were crying profusely.

 

You sound more totalitarian than I do.

About as far as I go for totalitarianism, is to crack down on the media, Hollywood, and academia for promoting too much Liberal propaganda, while often ignoring the other side.

You're literally calling for people to be imprisoned, or educated, for their opinions?

Really?

You have had the chutzpah before for complaining about Fascists for limiting freedom of speech in past arguments with me.

Really?

 

are you done yet?

 

Many Communist genocides les than 100 years old don't get much publicity.

How come?

Because Leftists tend to be hypocrites that's why.

 

Oh, but modern Western society isn't dumb, who allows in millions upon millions of Muslims to their own demise,. who are less likely to assimilate, more likely to support oppressive Sharia Law, more likely to be on welfare, and more likely to be terrorists. etc.

Western society needs some serious re-education for being so stupid.

 

Not everyone.Only so called liberals and their buddies in the media. They need to be re-educated. They need to learn how to love their countries and their people again. Liberals suffer from self-hatred and low self-esteem.

 

You are guilty of hate speech!!!

 

Nothing positive has come from Collectivism / Socialism?

You are aware that National Socialist Germany had the best technology of it's era?

Because they invested into it.

Individualism / Capitalism is a very selfish ideology.

Most of them just care about THEMSELVES, not about society, not about the less fortunate, just about how much they can get as an individual.

You're wrong, the biggest class system is in Individualist / Capitalism.

Your Capitalism has been pretty nasty too.

A fact that is often neglected.

The Belgian Congo Genocide, is a prime example of Capitalism run amok, where approx. 10 million were killed in the Belgian Congo, to fuel the Capitalist Belgian rubber trade.

The Capitalist British Empire killed about 30 million in India, by famine alone due to Capitalist policies.

Actually in the late Victorian era, as many as 60 million were killed by famine due to Capitalist policies.

Not to mention in the early Victorian era, about 1/8th of Ireland's population was killed by famine due to Capitalist policies.

 

Some people were virtually wiped out from Capitalism, like the Selknam people, or the Tasmanian Aborigines.

The Liberals spin this completely.

it's not racism that was the prime motivator of killing people for profits, it was Capitalist style greed.

I mean Liberals think that the Atlantic Slave Trade is the result of racism.

No, it's greed that motivated it.

 

Ever heard of Jewish Bolsheviks Murdered 66 Million In Russia?

Impressive, eh?

http://rense.com/general77/bols.htm
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Do I now have to go for re-education??

 

its a lie.

most Communist party members and leaders were not Jews.

rense is a notorious Holocaust-denial, anti-Jew site

 

O.k., here is another source:

The brave Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian writer who has been called the "Conscience of the 20th Century," served eight long years in the Soviet Gulag prison system. Today, he is hated by top-level Jews in America and around the world because he exposed the Jewish leadership of the genocide of 66 million Communist Gulag victims. Many victims were Christians.

Now satisfied??

http://www.texemarrs.com/062004/soviet_gulag.htm