The EU needs to be a confederation, not USE. Free trade, tourism, military help when needed... I'm ok with that.
....not deluded as such.... just mis-managed and lacking firm leadership... mind you I guess that's fine for the Germans as they seem to call the shots and pay for most of it.
We need to be looking at a wider picture now. We have set our fates adrift from these people. Let our self validation in this not be the failure of others. Let it be our own successes. The EU will screw us openly now. This is an improvement. Honesty in a relationship is worth a lot. However, we aren't in the EU anymore so there is no longer any reason for us to talk to them. We have direct access to the governments the EU seeks to represent. They are irrelevant to us now. Out of the loop. I hope the EU is a big success for all those who so badly want it to be. Do your thing and good luck. Not my business. We should leave politely. With the minimum of fuss. Say yes to everything they ask and then just not do it if we don't agree. Yes, Sir, no Sir, three bags full Sir. Sorry Sir, important date elsewhere, you understand. Thank you Sir, Sorry Sir. Goodbye Sir.
Or, GB could label Germany a currency manipulator, push for sanctions with a joint commission to ensure Germany are held accountable for austerity in Greece and German business practises resulting in the crisis we see today.
The EU may wish for a peaceful Article 50, but GB doesn't have to do anything while Germany ignores Article 125 invalidating the whole thing. It is a case of, it's rare, but it happens, a case of 'well, you're not following the rules, why should anyone else?'
Germany and France were the first two EU nations to break the euro currency rules. They didn't get sanctioned. Many years later when small economies did, they got sanctioned. It's harsh to call bailing out Greece "a sanction". The sanction they took was to lend Greece more. knowing it cannot repay. Greece was no screwed by the greed of Germany. It was screwed by the greed of Greece. They cheated their own figures to get into the Euro. Politics>economics. So even though Euro countries knew this to be the case, they let them join anyway. GB doesn't have to do anything. One of the things it doesn't have to do is sanction Germany. For why? Where is our interest in this? To make Euro countries treat each other equally? They aren't equal and their internal affairs aren't any of our business.
Don't fool yourself, France would always be 21 miles away, Ireland will always be touching Northern Ireland. We have to talk to the EU. I can't believe you suggested we don't tbh. Do you know where these isles are? We're not in the bloody Caribbean.
If I was in charge, it'll be simple. First I'd wipe off the Greek Debt, call it a loss for those who funded it. Then after Greece are off the hook, investigate with sanctions if found guilty why Germany did what they did. Make Germany pay back the EMF and the IMF.
Then we need to secure jobs, so, make a new EU wide minimum wage to end the flood of EU migrants from the east to west, and to stop Germany from profiting from countries like Hungary.
Think of the reduced time in shipping if everything in a VW was put together and made in Germany, rather than paying people pennies on the hour in another country compared to hiring locally and having everything move around a bigger factory,
Right now, Boeing make aeroplanes in Washington, USA, Airbus has it wings made in Wales made in UK of GB & NI.
If Germany could thrive in Germany within the borders of Germany, then Vive La Allemagne. Right now it's like Germany want a USE. Japan didn't need an US of Asia, and probably couldn't get one with Communism in the region anyway, but if Japan could have big factories like Toyota City, does Germany only think about the USE? It seems German governments can't counter plan in the event of no EU. So they resort to save it by reckless behaviour and sticking to their guns for the sake of being a more united Europe.
Germany need the Schengen Agreement because they hire outside of Germany, where the people are cheaper... But then all their stuff they own they can't bring back to the Fatherland without this stupid Schengen Agreement because they're stupidly producing outside of the Fatherland they need the Schengen Agreement to also get all that stuff back those cheap labour bastards made; Also, Greece is worse than Michigan right now and this is done to keep the Greek using the same currency as Germany.
I can leave this part of the world. Had the UK voted to be part of EU, I most certainly would have done. France and Ireland may still be out neighbours, but the EU isn't France, and the EU isn't Ireland. The EU is a diplomatic institution. It includes a few French and Irish people. It is not however a diplomatic institution that we are a part of. No need for us to participate in it. No overall want for us to participate in it. If we wish to recognise it as a sovereign state for those territories, the legitimate ruling government of it's member countries that may change. As yet, I am not willing to do that. Nor would Europe's becoming a unified country be a goal that advantages the UK. So I see no reason to encourage this outcome. I don't advocate going as far as discouraging it. If that's what they want, go ahead. But it's not what I want, so no need to actively advance that ambition.
Which reminds me - the French never did pay the fine levelled on them for not lifting the ban on British beef. We would have been stupid enough to pay it before the ink on the demand was dry. This ill-conceived idea was never going to work because obviously every member would have only its own interests in mind, and that isn't 'partnership', it's self-interestedness. aka every man for himself?
There will be more beef bans to come. More blockades for our goods at ports. Inside the EU, outside the EU, this will not change.
Excuse me, but that is absolutely not the case. Patriotism is in no way taboo in Germany. It is perceived differently than in other western countries and is most certainly not as outgoing and almost aggressive as in some other places in the world. That taboo thing is complete nonsense. Puh, first, there is no EU army, so what exactly are you talking about regarding money that doesn't go into NATO's defence because it's spent on this (non-existent) EU army. Second, the US alone spends more money on its military than all other NATO countries, Russia and China combined. You seem to be afraid NATO is going to turn into some third world peasant militia. I don't see that happening at all, and maybe we, the western countries, should stop turning Putin into the next Hitler pretending he's going to invade Europe next week. The West's Ukraine policies in the last few years have been a pretty big mess and not very smart. These problems could have been avoided, IMO. Third, Beethoven's Freude schöner Götterfunken was introduced as the EU anthem in 1972 and Austrian composer/conductor Herbert von Karajan was asked to arrange an instrumental version. This piece is not to replace the national anthems in any way. I don't see any problem here. Greece is a complicated case, IMO. Greece's problems are of their own doing. Greece is the most corrupt country in Europe by far (not the ordinary people, it's the government). Transparency International investigated the Greek crisis years ago and found strong and crystal clear ties between said financial crisis and the enormous corruption in the country. For more than four decades, every Greek government - conservative or social-democratic - didn't do anything to fight corruption but thrived on it. Greece doesn't even have an official land registry office (maybe they have one now) and tax authorities and the country's taxation system are not even close to western standards while maybe a hundred insanely wealthy Greek families saved their billions years ago and don't pay a cent. IMO, Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro, but some eurocrat fools and certain heads of government/state wanted it that way. Unfortunately, as almost always, it's the ordinary people who have to pay now. There are many things that Merkel and other governmental leaders do that I don't agree with, but Greece's downfall was foreseeable.
Only Germany view patriotism as an act of aggression, it's also been known to make people blush and hide, it's... Unhealthy. Every minute of every committee spent talking about the very subject of an European army is anti American. Officials getting together in Europe receiving pay to discuss and vote on having one is money spent that NATO doesn't see. Whenever a meeting is called about preparing anything in the event you can't depend on NATO, though is probably wise, is kind of insulting to NATO, to liberation as well. If countries who were in NATO and the EU paid what they've promised to pay into NATO, then, post paying NATO what's committed/pledged/agreed, spending money to discuss an EU armed force, money for meetings where this matter takes up minutes, money for the time spent talking about the subject would be okay because at least then, NATO wouldn't be depending on America all the time. Until NATO commitments are met, it's revolting to see Americanphobia in Europe given American influence preserved the way of life for liberties not enjoyed in the Eastern Block. It is a case of Germany thinking about the Euro. Greece did what Greece needed to do to get the Euro, but instead of Grexit, Germany broke Article 125 and now Germany are under the very illegal impression that Greece now owes them something, and the Greek are saying they don't want to pay or lose the Euro.
