everyone with income pays a 15% tax, called Social security

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by gorte, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand why someone in such a situation would steal to continue living. I would do so myself. That does not make it right, and it certainly does not make it right to monopolize such action in the state.

    I am not proposing action at all, I am denouncing the status quo. So what do I suggest should be done? Nothing. Give them charity if you have such an inclination, don't if you do not.
     
  2. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's your opinion and we both should be free to choose our own plan. If you did honest research you would find that SS has been a generational disaster that has continuously cost more in taxes and deficits. If you were honest you would admit the governments control over the funds has been criminal if done the same in the private sector. Bernie was a crook and put in jail, yet you defend worse by the government.
     
  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    and the idea for it was invented by Founding Father Thomas Paine:


    http://www.ssa.gov/history/tpaine3.html
     
  4. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    When was the last time the government had to shore up SS with funds?
    Since the 1940s SS has generated more revenue than it paid out every year. The surplus revenues are invested in US Treasury Bonds, the safest investment on the planet. The failure of the federal government to make provisions to pay back that borrowing when it was well known for decades that SS would begin cashing in those bonds in the 2010s is an imbecilic failure of politics that has nothing to do with SS. Just like corporate raiders the republican party has run the firm into a financial ditch, raided the money in the pension fund and is now trying to get out from paying the money back. The corporate raiders got away by declaring bankruptcy and defaulting on all their debts. Are the republicans really crazy enough to do that to the US?
    I think they are.

    If you were honest you would admit that SS works better that most pension insurance schemes on the planet.
    You should ask the people of Chile how the privatization of their government pension scheme worked out.
     
  5. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The government has raised the contribution tax from 2% to 12.4%. It is currently running 300+ billion dollar deficits each year. The funds have become a slush fund from future generations prosperity.

    Privatization eliminates these atrocities. It allows Americans to build personal wealth by investing in our economic infrastructure.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrill...sonal-social-security-accounts-and-prospered/
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure that denouncing the status quo without actually having an alternative is going to prove to be very productive.

    And if you look at the long term trends in employment and income the problem is only going to get much worse.
     
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I suspect your suggestion of putting retirement funds into term life and disability insurance is more than adequate proof that most people do not have the knowledge to provide for their own retirement.
     
  8. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, Americans have been dumbed down due to non demanded for socialist programs. Americans survived and were resourceful during the GD.

    A simple mandated private system would provide better outcomes, allow Americans to build personal savings(SS does not) and stop generational theft.
     
  9. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would end the status quo. That's progress. It might not be in a direction you like, that's not my concern.

    My alternative is inaction. We see very different issues in the system: you presumably think the elderly aren't being sufficiently looked after by the state, while I think the state's thugs with guns are too aggressive in stealing my property to subsidize those who insufficiently provided for their own future.

    [hr][/hr]

    What you're saying is no different to the drug prohibitionists saying "I am not sure that denouncing the status quo without actually having an alternative is going to be very productive". The state's prohibition of illicit drugs is the problem. I don't have an alternative way of stopping people from using drugs because I don't see that as a problem. Abolish the state intervention and don't replace it with anything: that's my alternative!

    I have the same attitude towards social security, coerced superannuation, retirement pensions, etc - abolish the state intervention and don't replace it with anything: that's my alternative!

    That does not justify sending in armed thugs to take my property and correct their mistakes. (*)(*)(*)(*) them.
     
  10. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    As stated previously it is fine to advocate elimination of any government program you choose. But failure to recognize and deal with the consequences is not.
     
  11. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    You need to do some actual research into government actions during the Great Depression.
     
  12. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SS was not enacted till 1935 and the first monthly check did not go out until 1940.

    Go research Ida May Fuller.
     
  13. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Go research the WPA or the TVA
     
  14. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Work projects do not compare to a socialist ponzi scheme that currently robs Americans of valuable earned discretionary funds that could be building personal wealth as apposed to giving government an excuse to spend frivolously and dump massive debt on future Americans.
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I thought you believed that any law that actually helped people by spending taxpayer money was a criminal enterprise!
     
  16. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forced redistribution is legalized theft by government.
     
  17. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    Then perhaps we should begin by reversing government policies that have resulted in the mass redistribution of the nation's wealth and income to the already wealthy.
     
  18. Capitalism

    Capitalism Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Define "humane"?

    I think it's completely humane, people want animals to live there lives outside the bounds of human interference, why are we so different?

    Humans in Africa have been starving in Africa while the rich eat luxurious meals?

    Humans in China do some pretty questionable things to, like population control.

    Europe? Humans in Europe not to long ago killed 13 million other humans for (*)(*)(*)(*)s and giggles.

    The US? We used an early form of Bio-warfare against the native populations.

    South America? Do we really need to explain this one? Thousands of Videos showing decapitations,torture, and slaughter show up from here all the time.

    Russia? Starved their people purposefully.

    All I'm saying, Antarctica is probably the most "humane" place on earth by your definitions.

    It's not ones man job to feed another, should he teach him out to survive if the need be? Personally I say yes, should it be required? No.

    Survival of the fittest, that's what we as a human population need to continue on a beneficial evolutionary path.

    What kind of (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up things do you think nature will give us laying on a couch all day? Never having to try to survive? Were gonna end up being the *******n blob people.

    The next cataclysm (it will happen, depends on when) if humans are still alive will probably push our evolution more than anything. Why? It happens after every major extinction event. When things must compete, it's beneficial for species, not individuals. When nothing must compete? It leads to complacency, no good for evolution.
     
  19. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    Survival of the fittest as far a humans go is not an individual endeavour and never has been since the first humans climbed down from their trees.

    History shows us that human survival has always been far more about the group than the individual.

    Perpetuating long ago dis-proven memes of individual primacy only puts the future of the human race on an even more dangerous and uncertain path.

    We are all in this together and whoever thinks that the survival of the human race is up to the individual becomes the most dangerous person on the planet.

    Only a large group of individuals thinking only about their own self is capable of wrecking the planet and right now the socio-economic system is geared to take exactly that type of person into those positions. This is because the business world is dominated by the completely misinterpreted meme of survival of the fittest and the measure of winners by accumulated wealth.

    Continuation of the survival of the fittest meme is the way to catastrophe for the human race. The sooner we abandon it the better our chance of survival. By 2100 it will be far too late to recover from the environmental damage we are inflicting. This is not just a matter of polluted water and air but of the ability of the planet to generate enough oxygen for human survival. If current trends continue oxygen generation will decline drastically by the end of this century.
     
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Make up your mind!
     
  21. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  22. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    I find that most of the people who complain about taxes really don't make that much money yet they maintain that their taxes are too high regardless. Civilization costs money, it does not come cheap. If you think your tax dollars are being wasted, go to the Treasury site and check out where the money is spent, then start whacking. After you get rid of all your pet peeves, you still have huge expenditures that are basically mandatory. Someone has to pay for them. I for one have no problem paying my taxes, I just want them to stop spending so much on war and the instruments of war.
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    This would make sense ONLY if we didn't have about 100 million Americans paying no income taxes, with many of them actually receiving refunds, and another 20-30 million middle class Americans who pay very little income taxes. This would make sense ONLY if the wealthier Americans were not already paying 85% of income taxes.

    What exactly would you like to reverse? Would you like the 100 million Americans who currently pay no income taxes to start paying 10%? Would you like middle-class Americans to start paying 25% tax rates?

    BTW: the government has nothing to do with people's income...only with taxation...
     
  24. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Right because without social security, all those seniors wouldn't have to depend on money to survive, they could make do with wishes and bugs.
     
  25. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Tax all war profits at a 100% rate in order to eliminate all profits and we will have an end to war.
     

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