Evidence for the Creator: Angst

I'm not impressed by limited test tube success.

 

No. My God-concept does not conform to traditional notions. The only thing better than God is more God. This world is a breeding ground for soul propagation that contributes to the growth of God. Multiple lifetime experiences are required to develop quality consciousness, a refinement of sorts, until a "purified" soul is then harvested and does not reincarnate. Read Rev chapter 14 (out of the winepress came blood).
From this point of view things begin to make more sense. For example, the Bible says that God values a repentant sinner more than someone who has never sinned. Making mistakes and suffering sensitizes the soul.

 

In other words you don't want to have to deal with factual reality.

Got it!

 

Now you are just flailing around because you cannot defend the indefensible.

Got it!

 

Perhaps DEBUNKED only by your cognitive bias, but I am not playing by your goal posts. Your belief that religion is based on ignorance is....ignorant. It's persistence and popularity proves it utility beyond simplistic definitions like yours. Where is your scientific data (peer reviewed) proving religious belief is based on ignorance.

 

The FATHER, the son and the holy ghost.
Our FATHER who arts in...

And on and on and if we are to believe the Bible he is VERY capable of interceding and everything according to HIS plan. I can only go by what religions, here the Judeo/Christian, teach and worship. Is not the purpose of every parent to protect their children from harm especially a harm of which they are the creator?

 

Many have puzzled over these questions. First - what is existence - the soul. Kant sums it up "I think therefor I am"

We don't know how the ability to think "the soul" came about- but, we need not know the answer to this question in order to answer the question of whether or not the soul moves on.

What do we know ? We know that we are made of some configuration of matter and energy and that one day that configuration opened its eyes and knew it existed.

Are there other configurations of matter/energy that are self aware ? I would claim that my cat knows it exists. There may well be other configurations throughout the universe that have become self aware.

Now to the question - will you exist again. Will matter and energy - the exact same configuration as you - form again - open its eyes and be aware of itself.

Prior to matter and energy assuming this special configuration - there had to have been a finite probability of this event occurring. If there was no such probability - the event could not have occurred - but, it did occur.

So will this event occur again ?

If we assume time is infinite - in an infinite period of time - all finite probabilities will occur - not just once but an infinite number of times.

Existence is then infinite.

 

So everyone dying is a God hater and that's why they are dying? Where did it come about he only creates "good things" the Bible says he created everything and has omnipotent power and has certainly injected himself into the affairs and specific lives of his children. People of faith routinely thank him for his CURATIVE powers. They pray to him to cure themselves, their family, their friends and then when the person is cured they attribute it to him. Well why is God allowing all these children of his die and suffer due to the hardships created by COVID?

 

Are you DENYING that religions are based upon SUPERSTITIONS?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superstition

If you REFUSE to adhere to the SCIENTIFIC METHOD and DICTIONARY DEFINITION "goal posts" then you have completely DISQUALIFIED yourself on this topic as far as I am concerned.

Have a nice day!

 

The dictionary is your scientific data?

Superstition is part of religious belief but there are other superstitions that are not part of religion therefore that is not the definition of a religion. Its a little more complicated.

We have two opinions on what religion is. Your opinion seems based on emotion, is simplistic and has no science behind it. My opinion is nuanced has the backing of many experts on the subject and is logically defensible. That makes the odds of who is correct fall in my favor, does it not?

 

You use science like a religion, but science doesn't really explain everything. It's just a plethora of labels, descriptions, and analyses of properties.

 

You are stuck on objective physical reality. My premise really does make better sense of the predicament than traditional religion. There's a lot more to it, but there's no use elaborating it to you, since philosophy is also a line that you don't cross.

 

It's full of flaws and contradictions. Improved concepts that make more sense can be realized.

Again, this is a misunderstanding that fails to comprehend and integrate a more obscure overall purpose.

 

That's philosophically profound and logical, but uniqueness embedded within the confines of critical complexities tends to mitigate the absolutism of infinity (hugh?).

For example, considering the potential of the human genome, only a fraction of the total possible number of individually distinct humans has ever been born at least once in this world. This world is one of a kind in this solar system, our solar system is one of a kind in this region of the galaxy, our galaxy is one of a variety of different galactic configurations in the universe, and our universe is an arrangement based on precise cosmological constants.

 

There are other constraints we could come up with - and the assumption "time is infinite" is not the only one made

That matter will continue to change is another - going through them - it is a reasonable hypothesis that is not easily refuted - certainly I have failed to do so.

In an infinite amount of time - assuming the genome survives - each possibility could be realized. Perhaps that number is the universal limit for biological organisms ..

What we do know - is that somehow - matter/energy - gained knowledge of its own existence.

not only that .. this mind - these thoughts - managed to manifest themselves into physical reality. one thing to be aware .. perhaps on the level of a tree ... quit another to be able to make your finger move - by force of will.

 

I never said that.

Mt 7:18 -

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Which is only common sense, after all.

So?

I'm not here to account for the actions of those who fit your presumably specious definition of the term.

How should I know? That's a question those individuals should be asking Him, and every answer will be unique.

 

You said

So yes you did. The people dying are god haters else what was your point?

Which is only common sense, after all.

According to that belief and the prayers to him he can stop this and save his children yet he sits there and watches them die a horrible death.

You're the one defining people not me and if any definitions posted here have been specious well they came from you.

I am sure there are people who believe in him around the world asking that question why doesn't he come down and tell us?

 

Dunno who the hell you think you're kidding.

To expose your claim that you "have no reason to believe that only atheist are dying from this virus" as irrelevant to anything I said. You're welcome.

And in some cases he does. Were it not so, King George would have crushed that revolution centuries ago, and you'd not have the freedom to spout your atheist drivel.

I'm not aware of having done that here, and I doubt you are either.

Why the hell should He tell you why someone else died?

 

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

That is totally ASSBACKWARDS!

YOU have consistently FAILED to provide anything remotely FACTUALLY SUBSTANTIVE to support your asinine allegation and the only link you did provide DEBUNKED your own drivel.

Now you are using the utterly BOGUS Appeal to Authority FALLACY that you cannot substantiate either.

So no, all that does is make you appear to FLAILING around in sheer DESPERATION because you have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to support your THEIST position.

 

Prove it!

You can't because that is just another of the many simplistic SLURS used by THEISTS without realizing that they actually BACKFIRE on themselves!

Here is WHY that absurdity has ZERO merit whatsoever!

Religion fallaciously pretends to "know" the "truth" when it does NOTHING of the sort because religion is INCAPABLE of ever admitting to being WRONG. Has religion ever admitted to being wrong about endorsing slavery? Why do some religions still practice slavery today?

Science makes NO claims about the "truth" but instead relies upon the Scientific Method to determine whether FACTS are substantive. If they found to be wrong they are replaced with facts that are substantive. If Science does not have any facts it just says that we DON'T KNOW and makes no pretense whatsoever of "knowing" any absurd "truth".

 

You are right that I do not waste my time on superstitious theist mumbo-jumbo when there are plenty of scientific FACTS that explain things instead.

 

You were the one who brought up hating god as a reason people die from the virus not me.

So god CAN prevent death from the virus correct?

Insults only show you can't discuss on the merits.

If he is our father why shouldn't stop it, you said he can.

 

MY, aren't WE all WORKED up!
Good thing I have a lot of time on my hands to waste on you....
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4958132/
http://research.monm.edu/mjur/files/2019/05/MJUR-i10-2019-6-Etter.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/public...y_of_Groups_with_Costly_Beliefs_and_Practices
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...of-being-observed-can-make-you-better-person/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-our-new-global-study-explores-this-question/
Just a taste....if that is not enough to overcome your cognitive bias.....well, I don't care.
Now it is your turn, through science, to convince me that the origin, persistence and popularity of religion is due to superstition.

 

I to unblock the .. to see which God basher it was. Christian based threads draw his type in.. weird? ain't it? There is no amount of evidence nor logic that will sway them from hating Who they purport to not believe in.
Have a blessed Pascua sister.

 

So providing FACTS is a "waste" of "time" according to you?

That says VOLUMES!

Your Confirmation Bias is STRONG in this link because it once again DEBUNKS your asinine position.

Note that this study is about the evolution of RELIGION and NOT mankind!

Strike one!

Animals display ritualistic behaviors, like dogs who turn around 3 times before settling down to sleep, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with any RELIGIOUS BELIEFS on the part of the animals themselves. It is merely a CHARACTER TRAIT.

In order for religion to EVOLVE it was FIRST ESSENTIAL that humans EVOLVED the ability to communicate ABSTRACT CONCEPTS!

This establishes that religion CAME AFTER humanity EVOLVED the ability to communicate. We survived as animals WITHOUT any imaginary "benefit" from religion.

Strike two!​

IOW's anyone who gained FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE that could actually HELP others was beneficial to society and NOT the associated MUMBO-JUMBO!

Strike three!

Religion DID NOT provide any evolutionary advantage BEFORE we could communicate therefore it had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with us evolving into modern humans.

Shamans were merely those who used their ACQUIRED FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the natural world, e.g. which plants aided healing, which benefited our survival. The religious clap-trap had ZERO BEARING on that KNOWLEDGE.

Looks like you didn't read your first link which is WHY you STRUCK OUT!

Let's see if you can do any better with the next one.
​

Oh dear, this did not start well at all!

An UNDERGRAD paper from someone with a self admitted BIAS for religion and you are under the ILLUSION that this counts as "scientific research"?

Imagine that? A SELF SERVING undergrad paper without any shred of scientific basis produces EXACTLY the result that MATCHES the Confirmation Bias of the undergrad herself?

So she picks a data source that she ACKNOWLEDGES is BIASED but still persists with using it.

At this point it should be patently OBVIOUS that this is doing YOUR position way more HARM than good. It does reflect the DESPERATION behind trying to find anything at all that MIGHT support it but this one is definitely another THREE STRIKER!

Moving on...​

The DESPERATION is now PALPABLE!

Computer SIMULATION is all you have to offer?

It is bad enough that you have SQUAT but to make a FEEBLE grasp at computer simulation to support your BASELESS position is beyond REACHING.

Do you have any idea how bad this comes across?

Obviously none at all!​

That has to be the WEAKEST of all because it is making a FALLACIOUS ASSUMPTION that "good behavior" can only occur if "god is watching".

What makes it the WEAKEST is because it leverages off the DEBUNKED nonsense above about ALTRUISTIC behavior that has been shown to EXIST without any religion whatsoever.

You are trying to PROVE that there is an EVOLUTIONARY advantage to religion and this doesn't even come close to dealing with that BASELESS allegation of yours. But it is TYPICAL of how theists DISTORT unrelated aspects of human attributes in order to defend their beliefs in superstitions.

So what is left?

At long last a source with CREDIBILITY!

Only HALF?

That puts a HUGE dent in your BASELESS allegation because it means that non religious people are just as happy in the other half.

That BLOWS AWAY the bovine excrement about religion having any evolutionary advantage right there!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it? And before you do off on a tangent smoking has declined INTERNATIONALLY and there is a GLOBAL downward trend so the choice of nations in the Pew Survey cannot be used to make a definitive claim in this regard.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/19-12-2019-who-launches-new-report-on-global-tobacco-use-trends

Once again that does NOT support your BASELESS allegation. People with the NEED to JOIN are more likely to JOIN than those that do NOT have the same NEED?

Once again we observe DESPERATION at work.

The term GRASPING at STRAWS springs to mind!

What does voting have to do with EVOLUTION?

This did NOT end well for you, did it?
​

So let's just summarize what you have in the way of "scientific data" to support your utterly BOGUS allegation about religion and evolution.

Your first link DEFINITELY debunks it for the simple reason that there has NOT been any significant evolutionary change since we developed the ability to communicate abstract concepts.

The SELF SERVING undergrad paper was a joke and not a good one either.

Your DEFLECTION using a Computer Simulation paper was pure DESPERATION.

Then came your puerile "god is watching" nonsense that FAILS because it fallaciously ASSUMES that there is god.

The Pew Research was CREDIBLE which is BAD for your position because it established that all of your self serving CLAIMS about religion FAIL to withstand even a modicum of SCRUTINY!

So you gave it your BEST SHOT and came up SNAKE EYES!

Sad!