Ex-Judge Roy Moore Files Supreme Court Brief to Urge End to Marriage Equality

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by ProgressivePatriot, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You might have missed his point. There are two aspects to all this. One is attraction, which is not a choice, despite what some say. @sec , with all due credit, does not seem to be one of those. The other factor is action. Being celibate is not where one has no attractions. It is where one chooses not to act upon those attractions. Likewise, one can choose to engage in sexual activity with the gender they are not attracted to. A lack of attraction does not automatically equate into a repulsion. The most common place to find this is in the porn industry. Both men and woman will engage with those of the gender they are not attracted to.j We also see it in the homosexual community where gay men and women will come together in order to procreate. But in the end, it is still a choice whether or not to engage in those activities.
     
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    What I would honestly like, is for some state appellate courts to take on this issue, based on state constitutional language protecting equal protection rather than the federal court systems. Let a couple of our ' laboratories of democracy' do some legislative experimenting with family, probate, and tax laws to accommodate this broadening of marital rights. And no, I don't mind in the least if my state were one of them to see this case brought and argued.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with using the Supreme Court to make law. Decisions can be overturned. I knew this was going to happen the moment the Supreme Court decided.

    If the Supreme Court was right in their decision to make same sex marriage equal, what makes them wrong if they decide to repeal that?
     
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    the agenda will never go away. There will always be push. are you agree with you there's no difference between Christians pushing for their agenda and gays pushing for theirs. You get to do that in this country if you don't like it move to Saudi Arabia.
    gay people being married doesn't infringe on traditionalists at all.
    because it's their opinion they wouldn't hold it if they thought it was wrong.
     
  5. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    My friend, I too would have preferred that it be accomplished legislatively, but you and I both know that was not going to happen, at list not nation wide any time soon . How long would you be willing to wait ? It's the proper role of the courts to step in when the other branches of government fail to uphold the constitution regardless of what might happen down the road

    As for your question, Obergefell was decided on logic and sound legal reasoning. I am hard pressed to imagine a legal argument that, at this late date, would revoke a right that has been granted. I can't think of any time in history when that has happened.

    This whole case is based on the idiotic premised that Kim Davis was personally harmed but same sex marriage, and that she therefor has standing before the court. She was not harmed by same sex marriage. She was harmed by her own decision to defy the court. It's absurd to think that the court-however conservative it is- would put her alleged suffering above the effect that a reversal would have on all of the people who have benefited from the decision. It would forever delegitimize the court. Roberts has his legacy, and that of his court to consider and I doubt that he would let that happen.

    My guess is that they will punt and not even take the case
     
  6. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    As far as this case goes I don't think it has much merit.

    I agree Obergefell was is based on logic. But different justices might see logic in arguments against it.

    It's probably going to be challenged a lot more.
     
  7. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    We shall see
     
  8. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It can be over ruled. It may have taken longer to get an amendment or some form of legislation but isn't that better and this worth the process?
     
  9. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Except you are totally wrong, sexual orientation revolves entirely around WHO you desire to have sex with. If you desire to have sex with a person who is the same sex as yourself then you are homosexual, if you desire to have sex with a person who is a different sex as yourself then you are heterosexual, and if you desire both then you are bi-sexual.
     
  10. pwillie

    pwillie Active Member Past Donor

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    Judge Moore is not my Champion, but God is!..Procreation is science that no one can deny.....and a two men cannot procreate....Crime against nature....do I really care if some guy bungholes another guy?...no,thats his ache, not mine...but when you talk marriage, we talk procreation!...and a person is supposed to give back to nature(giving up a birth of a human)....to reseed his self on our earth, which is a living planet....if we all became homosexuals,our species would have evaporated eons ago...I have never been a "Gay" hater or one to stop a person from being happy...but dont ask for special privilege if you cannot replenish the planet you live on....your just taking up oxygen....
     
  11. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You have several glaring logical holes in your argument.

    First, while not a majority, many homosexuals do indeed procreated, having children through a variety of methods, including physical copulation.

    Second, while your specific religion might require you to procreate, that is not true of all, or even most religions.

    Furthermore, procreation does not require marriage to occur, not does marriage require procreation to occur.

    Additionally, homosexuality has never been a choice, nor has it ever topped over 10% of the population, so any worries about continuation of the species is a red herring at best.

    Finally, given the large variation of what marriage is, the legal form of marriage is not required to match any given religious form of marriage. For that matter, the legal form of marriage in one country, is not required to match the legal form of marriage in another country, any more that the form of marriage in two separate religions are required to match.
     
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  12. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    That is a bizarre boatload of backwards , bovine excrement. Are you willing to deny the right to marry to heterosexual couples who cannot have children in the usual way or choose not to have have children? Unless you are your, screed is a miserable failure.

    There is much more that I could say but I have better things to do
     
  13. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I always saw this as a church/state separation issue. The church should not be telling the state who should have the legal rights that come with marriage, and the state should not be telling the church who should be recognized as entering a sacred spiritual union.

    I think Civil Unions should be contracts any two people, or groups of people, may enter, bringing with them the legal rights we now assign by marriage. And then "marriage" can be merely the spiritual or emotional bond between people, celebrated, recognized or denied however various people want. Then gay guys can get married and religious people dont need to see them as treading on their religions' sacred institution.
     
  14. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    One reason I dont agree with marriage equality is because the language itself shows people arent born that way. The word lesbian being different from gay hints that its a choice people make. The fact women relate to other women differently than men relate to other men shows lesbianism is a choice and not genetic at all.
     
  15. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't compute. Can you elaborate?

    What we call people determines traits about them being chosen or circumstances of birth?

    That lesbians relate to women differently than gay men relate to men somehow shows they chose their sexual orientation?

    ?

    And why does it matter anyway? Even if being gay was a choice, why should choice of sexual orientation stop 2 adults who say they love each other and want to be married from getting married? This never made any sense to me except that some religious people think their God told them to stop it for some unknown reason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  16. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    In this case it does relate to it being chosen and not a circumstance of birth.

    Being born a certain way doesnt mean events in a persons life didnt influence it either. It means that it was something spotanenous people do not something planned out. Dr. Michael Brown, an evangelist, said women have more erotic plasticity than men. Heres why I think is a choice. Women always compliment each other and call each other girlfriends, something men rarely do.
     
  17. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    To answer your question I believe it desacralizes sexuality. God didnt create all men or all women, or half men and all women. Since I used to have long hair, who am I to judge people for blurring the lines, but Im just saying what Gods standards are. Gods ways arent our ways. Gods standard of redefine or expand arent our standards.

    Im not saying that same sex marriage is the worst thing ever either.
     
  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    So it is a religious thing. Ok.

    I'm an atheist. I don't care what people think God wants/is, so long as they don't push it on others. Them trying to stop gay people from getting married treads on that ground.

    I am curious though what they would think of my idea above though. Why not have "Civil Union" for anyone who wants it, which has all the legal rights of marriage, and then "marriage" can be a word we use to describe the spiritual bond etc, and people need not recognize each others' bonds with whoever. Then a gay couple can call themselves "married" but your church/synogogue/mosque need not recognize it and nobodies rights are being stepped on.

    I do oppose anybody trying to force people (including religious people) to say something they don't believe. Its the same reason I oppose any legal penalty for anyone to not go along with somebody's "preferred pronouns". Its polite to go along, but it shouldn't be forced on anyone to call a biological man a woman, etc. Likewise, nobody should face any sort of legal charges for not agreeing two gay men are "married" to each other, so long as they don't try to stop the two gay men from saying and living out that they are or denying them any legal rights any other "married" couple would get.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  19. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    What do you think marriage is? There are asexual marriages, and in a bible study they mentioned the mystical marriage between Christ and the church, but marriage is not a union of souls and spirits.

    Its a relationship that functions like a friendship and has a connection to sexuality but no sexual intent.
     
  20. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Even the non biological aspects of gender is wierd to mix up into some kind of intermediate. Gender doesnt have a specific definition, it just is, just like black and white are words that just are. When someone told me he thinks Koreans are white people, white didnt have a specific definition-the word itself just had a certain feeling.

    i dont think transgender behavior and feelings are sins because they "draw undue attention to gender biologically"-its not just that, its equally the fact that who you are as a person and your soul and your self perception, is something personal that shouldnt be mixed up with an opposite-its confusion, and androgynous clothing also draws undue attention to even the person side of gender identity (which is personal for even a cisgender person).

    I believe in a relationship with God not a religion.

    Also a person who looks down on sinners isnt Christian. The Bible is about right and wrong not looking down at people who have different weaknesses than we do.
     
  21. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    A marriage by an imam is still a marriage, bibically. Its not just because Muslim people also believe in the Bible to an extent. Even a marriage by a hindu priest is still a bibical marriage.
     
  22. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    That is more a western culture thing. And even more so in the US. In many eastern cultures boys hold hands and snuggle up with one another in the same non romantic ways many women will do. It's a learned trait. However, that does not indicate that one's sexual attraction is either a choice or a learned trait.
     
  23. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Because gender is who you are as a person only women use terms like girlfriend in a normal way. Feminist bibles dont just or even draw undue attention to the biological aspects of gender they draw undue attention to the abstract vague concept of gender. Its related to things like people saying, "my boys" to refer to their sons. They dont reference gender to keep things simple its because gender is who you are as a person, thats why they mention it, thats the reason they mention it. And mentioning that outside of the proper context is annoying akin to people gossipping and mentioning details that pertain to other people-thats why feminist bibles are wrong, and why I believe women call each other girlfriends platonically. That and
    Is why I believe that homosexuality in women is a choice. The Bible says even their women, implying they have more of a choice. Men are more easily stimulated by sight and have a greater biological need for sexuality, which is why I think things like troubled backgrounds are more likely to influence men into homosexuality as something they are born into, and with women its a choice.
     
  24. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    This rather comes back to the fact that marriages have had different definitions across cultures and time. Legal marriage does not have to be the same as anything else. The test I always give to people who are married is asking them if the government decided not to recognize marriages or have any rights that depended upon marriage, would they still call their SO their spouse? The answer is almost overwhelmingly yes. This proving that legal marriage is something separate and apart from, although similar to, religious and/or social marriage.
     
  25. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Marriage functions like a friendship and has a connection to sexuality but it doesnt have the intention.
     

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