Exaggerated gun violence by US policemen

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by pitbull, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    In advance, so that you understand me: I live in Germany. We also have really violent criminals and police officers who don't know when a resisting criminal was defeated. Our cops sometimes face trials for too much physical force against suspects. But firearm use by our police is very rare. Many cops haven't use guns during their entire service, except at the shooting range.

    In contrast, when police and criminals meet in the US it often ends in a shootout. Of course, the criminals are always responsible for the escalation. They pull out a pistol, a knife, or any other weapon, therefore the cops must defend their lives.

    But what I find disturbing: If it comes to a shootout, there are often 3, 4, or more cops at the scene. And all of them fire repeatedly at the attacker. They continue firing, even if he goes heavily injured to the ground. Why do they do that? It looks like an execution. Any Idea?

    Example:
     
  2. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Several things might come into play. In the first place cops are humans. They're trained to keep emotions out of their duties but in a situtation like a shoot out the nerves have escalated to the point it's fight or flight. Certainly multiple police involved in shootings could be called in 'over kill'. However, another one liner is: "don't just wound the guy or he might get pissed off and kill you". Secondly you might also consider a little 'tribal' effect might come into play. I tried to prevent the bad guy from shooting us, why didn't you shoot? Your buddy cop is shooting, why aren't you. Who knows. I know it's over simplification but cops are humans and the training they receive depends a lot on the size of the city that employs them. I can tell you back in 1957 training was here's your gun, bullets, badge and handcuffs. Report for work this afternoon at 4:00.
     
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You shoot to stop. Once the suspect is incapacitated -- on the ground is not necessarily incapacitated - you stop shooting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  4. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    Which cop is supposed to shoot? What if both cops decide to let the other shoot the BG? As far as I'm concerned, anybody trying to shoot a cop during the commission of a crime is committing SUICIDE by cop.
     
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  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Shootouts between policemen and criminals are rare in the U.S. Only about 25% of U.S. policemen ever fire their weapons outside of training. That includes things like having to shoot snakes, rabid dogs or alligators, not just at people. If a policeman has justification to shoot somebody in self-defense or to stop a violent felony, they have the justification to kill that person in the process. If more than one policeman is present, they all have that justification. It's not an execution, it's defense of public safety. If they are not justified in shooting the suspect, of course, it is an execution, but that is rare.
     
  6. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    I'm very glad to read that. YT videos are apparently not representative. Obviously I got trapped into a police hater network on YT. Sure, only spectacular material is suitable for such videos, which makes the police look aggressive and crazy.
     
  7. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    The suspect was tazed not shot, he had a gun in his back pocket and didn't follow orders to get on his knees...in fact you can hear him say in the video that he was not going to get on his knees, he's lucky he didn't get shot.
     
  8. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Do you see the cop at 1:20, throwing away his taser, grabbing his gun and firing at the suspect even though he's gone to the ground because he was hit by multiple gunshots?
     
  9. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I saw the cop drop the tazer and pull his gun but I didn't see or hear any gunshots, and the guy was on the ground moaning because he got tazed.
     
  10. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    He's not only pulling his gun. He's shooting at a man who's already gone down because of multiple shots that hit him.
     
  11. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    Man you really need to open your eyes, he didn't fire because the slide never moved, there was no spent shell casings being ejected, and those were not shots, trust me they are a lot louder than that.
     
  12. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    One thing a lot of people don't realize is that just because a man goes down does not mean he's neutralized or out of the fight. Another thing is just how quickly situations unfold; a fraction of a second can be the difference between life and death.

    The video in question blurs out the bad guy once the shooting starts; but if you watch the full, uncensored video you can see him yank the gun out, at which point the officers respond. He goes down, but even when on the ground he is thrashing, the barrel of his weapon flailing towards the officers, who keep shooting because they can see he still has a weapon and is still trying to point it at them. Ergo, they keep shooting. To the uninitiated they may see an "execution" because the man is on the ground, but to someone who has been there and done that the officers' actions become fully understandable and justifiable.
     
  13. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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  14. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but ivI' watched the video about a dozen times, there is no muzzle flash, the slide does not move, and no she'll casings being ejected.
    Now, the cop that went off camera may have fired, he couldn't be seen, but gun shots are extremely loud and these cops are mic'd, you would definitely hear it, especially from a Glock.
     
  15. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    In my experience, gunfire is too intense for most mikes to pick up; the sound of the shot is oddly distant or even inaudible on many videos. It also varies from site to site; the first time I saw that video after it was emailed to me by someone else the sound of the gunfire is much more apparent.
     
  16. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you are grossly misrepresenting reality here. In the US there are millions more police contacts with civilians, the numbers don't scale to German police contacts, its not a scalable comparison. In the US police request back up on virtually every single call, whether there is an apparent risk or not. Cops call for back up on country roads even for a speeding ticket. Perhaps German cops are careless. If they remain so, eventually they'll pay for it with their lives. I don't think you properly understand our system and your criticism is unwarranted...
     
  17. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    It's actually not often. Most US cops go through their entire careers not even needing to pull out their weapon, much less shot and killed someone.
    The guy was shooting his gun while actively being shot.
     
  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point. No time to be polite and say "After you"

    This guy was given several chances to get to his knees.
     
  19. dave8383

    dave8383 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    In the video in the OP the officer who was initially talking with the suspect later fires his weapon. You can see the weapon recoiling. You can also hear muffled shots from more than one officer.

    BTW, if there was ever a legitimate shoot, that's it, and I would have continued firing at least as long as the police did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  20. BULGARICA

    BULGARICA Banned

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    <<MOD EDIT - RULE 1 - This is an English only forum- Lee S>>

    German police is unprepared, as we saw in not only one videos and tactical situations. Their police has NO tactical training whatsoever. They don't use force on Perps who're armed with deadly weapons, which could lead to the potentially deadly situations and death for innocent bystanders. German Police has been pushed into a corner by their Liberal Government and the ones that actually do something, they get jailed over a fake "Nazi allegations". I, by no means, support open gun battles and murder on the streets but sometimes it's better to act and react than watch souls die or Perps walk away the next day, or week, or month.

    A system too harsh will force the Jury and the Court to not yield a conviction. A system too loose will force the Citizens to raise up and get matter into their own hands. There shall be blood, ye I say it will be.

    And if you had any TACTICAL experience at all, you'd know that it often takes as many as 5 or 6 officers or civilians to hold together a pumped on adrenaline or drugs resisting Perp. The criminal will be fighting for his life, so to speak. Ye aren't going to jail but he is. Even the same with situations in Iraq and Afghanistan. It takes a team of 6 to take 1 or 2. Other than that is clean madness, pure nonsense and a few coffins ready.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  21. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Ich will nicht die Amis verteufeln, Bro.
    Police violence exists in every country and it is strongly related to the behave of the criminals.
     
  22. BULGARICA

    BULGARICA Banned

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    German police gives chocolate cake to murderers and serious criminals. How is that a good example. That's shame.
     

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