Exploding Knife Violence on the streets of London

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by kazenatsu, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Openly fibbing now? You show no class
     
  2. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Oh ? Show I am wrong then
     
  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You know you're wrong as you couldn't support your "system of law protects criminals more than law abiding people by preventing personal defense calling it offensive" grunt. Come on, celebrate your intellectualism!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  4. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    New York City did just that, and I was a Police Officer then, hardly any type of defensive anything could be carried.

    In High School, I fought against three larger boys, and I had an improvised billy club with a lanyard, and I defended myself, injured too, I gave as good as I got, was almost arrested for trying to defend myself, was able to prove myself by showing resisting an attack from three very large boys was NOT offensive, and they had worse plans had they prevailed.
     
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  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Then again, most folk can refer to instances of self defence...
     
  6. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    There are reams of documentation of incidents of self-defense in the United States.

    There is also reams of documentation of people being prosecuted for fighting back in the UK. I still remember being at an international LE conference and speaking with a pair of Met officers talking about a guy who had started dating a woman and the woman's ex decided to ambush him when he came to work. CC cameras showed the ex charging up behind the man as he was getting out of his car...but the man caught his reflection approaching in the car window and pivoted around with a hard left that broke his attacker's jaw and rendered him immediately unconscious.

    The man who defended himself was charged for committing "defensive violence" and the government provided resources for the injured man to sue for damages.

    In what universe is THAT considered "Justice"??
     
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  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The UK has disarmed and rendered its subjects defenseless in the face of savage violent criminal system.

    The UK is a failed state. London is a deadly UK urban Hell Hole.
     
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  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    The difference being when law does not recognize personal defense and it is illegal to defend yourself in any fashion, a freind owned an Army Navy store, in New York City, it had an indoor range, a licensed gun sales section, and sold Military surplus items as well as mace and other items, he was visited by a N.Y.P.D. Police Captain, and was informed at that time, that selling mace to the general public was illegal, he could sell it to police and security, so when Mel asked what Women should do if facing a Rapist, "Tell them to get a whistle and s good pair of running shoes !" was the answer he was given.

    This is the attitude of Anti Gun Advocates, especially Government appointed Officials such as Police Supervisors, entrenched Politics being the operative phrase.

    I have spent a lifetime defending myself from nasty predators, and know personally the difference Armed self defense makes, as a Police Officer and as Constable, seen the many unarmed deceased victims, those I observed that resisted with Arms, at worst were shot and suffered injury, but lived, their attackers, often, not so much, many dying.

    Within the finite and well defined instances of licensed law abiding people, Armed personal defence is mostly successful, except in a few incidents where things do go wrong because the defender did not ascertain properly the circumstances, at three in the morning.

    I have as much expertise in the field of personal defense as any of the people publishing these so called academic white paper studies.

    These vaunted studies do not take into account salient factors, since the majority of incidents tabulated involve criminal incidents of people living in Ghettos and slums.

    For example, if you tabulate incidents of Gang shootings in N.Y.C. and collateral damage, these instances are occuring among people that do not possess the legally necessary licenced registered firearms, so they are already criminals on the face of things, and of course the aggressors are often already convicted criminals and already prohibited from owning firearms, so any study of firearms use in a City like New York will reflect a high majority of gun use classified chiefly as crime, as those involved as not your normal families, they are often people living in poverty and substandard living conditions, and likely to be involved in some form or varying degree, to the criminal activity occurring in their housing project.
    .
    When you analyze a study, it should be free of foregone conclusions, even the summary should state contextual findings within the stated norms and findings.

    Not all jurisdictions are the same, shall issue areas, where people normally are issued licenses to carry concealed show quite another face, and even areas where the basic format is adhered to as far as Federal regulations, crime is low in States such as Vermont, the Instant check, form 4473, no additional permit or licence requirements for purchase or concealed carry required.

    Yet criminal incidents involving firearms are very low.

    Washington D.C. with it's extreme restrictive gun laws, has a reputation of extremely high crime and Gang activity centered around illegal drugs.

    So studies showing high incidents of illegal gun use in such areas of high crime and unlicensed firearms will tend to reflect mostly criminal firearms use and not the percentage of law abiding gun owners comprising a distinct minority.

    States bordering Washington D.C. such as Virginia and Maryland are both States with high rates of Gun ownership, yet Maryland is May issue contingent on proving need, professional or secuirity, no license is needed to purchase a handgun, Instant check and form 4473, yet, in spite of high ownership of handguns, crime in Maryland is relatively low.

    Crime in Virginia in relation to gun ownership and population and demographics is also relatively low, when taking into account a majority of law abiding citizens that own firearms without incident v people with antecedents of crime and convictions and criminal activities or proclivity and recidivism.

    The F.B.I. cautions against ranking in it's uniform crime reporting as too many factors are influential in actual crime as it relates to the effectiveness of any crime prevention strategies, and in general, the effectiveness of Gun Control policies when evaluated in actual practice has yet to show any value when extrapolating statistics of States and Cities with very strict Gun Control and States and Cities with the basic Federal regulations in place.

    Puerto Rico a commonwealth, is a good example of a jurisdiction with extreme Gun Control, with full discretion by the Police Department, the numbers of approved licensed gun owners is relatively low, and crime is high as is illegal drug activities and Gangs and other ancillary criminal activities, as Puerto Rico is an island and it's closest neighbor, the Dominican Republic a distressing amount of criminal activity between both Countries is continually ongoing.

    In summation, there are no easy answers to a study of Gun control, since any answers depend on widely varying factors, each jurisdiction as far as Crime and Criminal activity must be accurately classified and indexed demographically, law abiding citizens involved in legitimate defensive gun use.

    Licensed gun owners v unlicensed gun owners, incidents involving law abiding citizens v criminals, or incidents involving crime and criminals v criminals.

    Until such a break down and facts are made plain, any study and results will be skewed and inaccurate reflecting the bias of the researcher more than actual facts, in many cases not all information is available to the researcher and this is not stressed enough in actual conclusion.

    Hence why actual accounts of verifiable defensive gun use with mention of jurisdiction and facts, weigh more heavily than studies quoting unverified data.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Have you been reading the Daily Mail again?
     
  10. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Myleene Klass, and all media carried the story,
    Take your pick.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8451877.stm

    Is it illegal for Myleene Klass to wave a knife at intruders?
    WHO, WHAT, WHY?
    The Magazine answers...
    [​IMG]
    Myleene Klass, a TV presenter, claims she was warned by police for waving a knife after spotting intruders in her garden, but is there any way such an action could be against the law?



    [​IMG]
    Klass's fiance was away on business
    Celebrity Myleene Klass was in the kitchen of her house in Hertfordshire when she saw young men who she didn't know in her garden. Her reaction was instantaneous. She picked up a knife, banged on her kitchen window and waved the knife at them before they fled.

    She was, according to her spokesman, later warned by police officers that carrying an "offensive weapon" was illegal in her own home. The allegation is vehemently denied by Hertfordshire Police, but it raises the question of whether this could be an offence in England.

    The story comes at a time of heated debate about whether the law should be changed to make absolutely clear what action householders can take against burglars and other intruders on their property.

    But did Klass break the law?

    [​IMG]
    THE ANSWER
    Possession of an offensive weapon only applies to public places
    Waving a knife could count as common assault
    But idea of self-defence makes it unlikely in these circumstances
    [​IMG]
    Klass 'bemused' at police warning
    The charge of carrying an offensive weapon is found in the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 but refers only to public places, says criminal lawyer Julian Young, of Julian Young & Co Solicitors. Klass's home is her private property, so it could not be argued that she had committed an offence.

    Subsequent legislation like the Criminal Justice Act 1988 and the Offensive Weapons Act 1996 have touched on the offence but the position remains the same.

    "It wouldn't mean there might not be some other offence," says criminal lawyer Robert Brown of Corker Binning solicitors.

    A "threatening behaviour"-type charge would also fail because Klass's actions were on private property, he notes.
    *********************
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Police warning? Are you taking the mike?
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    A Police warning, her actions were "bloody" offensive.
     
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  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    "The allegation is vehemently denied by Hertfordshire Police". Crikey, even worse than I thought! Scary stuff
     
  14. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are sooooo partisan you would prefer to call that lady a liar, since it supports not your position, could it be a Constable spoke to her and warned her about her actions ?

    And later on, such warning Officially disavowed ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  15. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Nope. This was a report shared with me by personnel of the Met themselves... and I got to watch the cc footage as well. You can try to dismiss reality all you want; that doesn't mean it's not still reality.
     
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  16. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The UK government has taken away the right of any effective self defense from British subjects.

    “Klass was in the kitchen with her daughter upstairs when she spotted the youths in her garden just after midnight on Friday. She grabbed a knife and banged the windows before they ran away.

    Hertfordshire police warned her she should not have used a knife to scare off the youths because carrying an "offensive weapon", even in her own home, was illegal.

    Klass's spokesman, Jonathan Shalit, said the former Hear'Say singer was "utterly terrified" by the intruders and "aghast" at the police warning.”

    "The shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, spoke out after Munir Hussain was jailed for beating a man who tied up his family in their home. He and his brother used a cricket bat to beat one of the intruders, who was left with a permanent brain injury."

    THE GUARDIAN, Myleene Klass warned after brandishing knife to deter intruders
    Police tell TV presenter she was acting illegally in waving kitchen knife at youths who were peering in window late at night, Haroon Siddique and agencies, 10 January, 2017.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/10/myleene-klass-knife-intruders

    So, is The Guardian just a left wing Fake News source?
     
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  17. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Or the B.B.C. News service ?
     
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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    BBC = Alt Right Fake News ;-)
     
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  19. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    No, it's what you said and the only dodge was yours.
     
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  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I've benefited from self defence numerous times in my life. Numbers of convictions? None. Oops, I must be doing something wrong.

    And what story do you whine about? One where a celebrity received nothing but a ticking off. Ooo, scary!
     
  21. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Cute.
    Ridicule when in doubt.
     
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  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You think a story about a celebrity being ticked off, when we dont even know what was said, can be used to justify a "UK government has taken away the right of any effective self defense" deserves serious contemplation? You'll be getting your facts from reality television stars next?
     
  23. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Your noise maker worked for you? Really? ;-)

    Q589: Are there any legal self defence products that I can buy?The only fully legal self defence product at the moment is a rape alarm. These are not expensive and can be bought from most local police stations or supermarkets." Ask the Police Q589
    https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q589.htm
     
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  24. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Effective selfdefense, including the use of knives and anything else that "might injure" a violent attacker is illegal in the UK.

    The UK government empowers criminals to attack its defenseless law abiding subjects. Evil.
     
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  25. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You seem to struggle with the definition of self defence.
     

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