Extra Terrestrials... Good or Bad

Discussion in 'Science' started by DarkDaimon, Dec 14, 2018.

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If extra-terrestrials were to visit Earth, they would be...

  1. vicious, colonizing warmongers, after our resources.

    9 vote(s)
    22.0%
  2. enlightened, peaceful explorers, wanting to learn from us.

    8 vote(s)
    19.5%
  3. opportunistic capitalists, trying to expand their markets.

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. fanatic, religious missionaries, out to convert the galaxy.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Other

    23 vote(s)
    56.1%
  1. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You also have to ask why so many of the reports are blacked out and still are to this day.
     
  2. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    From the conclusion of the COMETA Report
    This is the essential problem with UFO studies. You can't reproduce the event! The nature of the phenomenon doesn't lend itself easily to scientific evidence. That requires reproducibility.

    Add to that the weighted standard of "extraordinary" evidence. The questions of ball lightning and earthquake lights were largely considered true after a few fuzzy photos of these phenomena were captured. There are decades of photos and videos of UFOs, some quite impressive, that do not meet the standard of evidence, because any photo or video can be faked. An obvious double standard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  4. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is the problem when someone asks for proof. Nothing you show them will satisfy. They will show themselves before 2020 ends.
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    I think the more interesting question is, why so many are not? When people allege that the government doesn't recognize the existence of UFOs, I point to documents from places like the NSA. For example, I've downloaded this document from the NSA myself.

    http://nicap.org/reports/760919routing_slip_ufo_iran.pdf

    I once noted that when Senator Russell saw two "flying saucers" take off from a forested area, as his train passed by that spot, in Russia, back in the 1950s, the report was classified. Later, parts of it were released under the FOIA, but with sections still blacked out. Later, the entire report was released unredacted.

    The only parts that had been redacted were references to the Senator and his location. The trip to Russia was highly classified. The sections describing the UFOs were unredacted in the first public release. So apparently the government wasn't worried about the UFO report. They just didn't want the trip to be made public.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Even with FTL travel it's difficult to imagine biological units who can tolerate this level of acceleration, duration and deceleration?

    With robotic spacecraft, even if they could travel FTL, and found their way to Earth, how can they possibly enter Earth's atmosphere without being detected?

    Lastly, if ET could travel light years to Earth, are they going to capture a single lumberjack in northern AZ, or some guy named Mongo in Alabama, then move on after they make a crop circle?
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting reading are the books by Zecharia Sitchin...
     
  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    It is not possible to accelerate to the speed of light. You can get as close as you like but you can never reach it. So if FTL travel is possible, it requires something like Warp Drive or transdimensional drive.

    That question has been outdated since the B2 bomber. If they can get here, evading RADAR may be child's play. It could be inherent in the mode of travel. They might be ignored as an signal anomalies, equipment glitches, or something natural like a meteor. There is no way to know unless the limits of the required technology is known.

    Crop circles are a naturally occurring phenomenon that has been recognized by scientists since at least the 1940s. There are reports going back hundreds of years. The real ones are likely caused by wind vortices that form over hilltops and then turn down as they pass over pastureland; dust devils and the like. There is evidence that something like ball lightning may also produce circular formations in grasses and other vegetation while leaving traces of radiation. There are also cases of large circles formed where a UFO allegedly landed. So that's a mix of things at best. Obviously a great many crop circles are made by people.

    Travis Walton [your lumberjack] allegedly walked out and stood under a hovering UFO, as witnessed by 5 other people who passed a lie detector tests during a murder investigation. So why him? Because he asked for it? But why is not the question. The question is, what are the odds of 5 people faking a lie detector test?

    https://www.gaia.com/article/travis-walton-ufo-incident

    I don't have to understand alien thinking or motivations to consider objective evidence for their existence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    The Travis Walton story reminds of a summer where I helped put on a Cub Scout Space Camp. We had built this theme of visiting aliens the entire week and the kids were really into it. On the last night we had the grand finale where the aliens appeared - actually a large weather balloon I modified to look like an alien space ship, with flashing lights, weird sound, and the works.

    We released the balloon, which was still on two invisible tethers made of fishing line. As soon as the kids saw it, there was a stampede! They were so pumped that they charged the UFO in an uncontrolled free-for-all. But when the dust settled, three kids were missing. We finally found them under some tables. When they saw that UFO, unlike the rest of the kids, they ran the other direction and hid! :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Humans can't even tolerate 4-5 g's. Don't see how humans will ever make good high-speed travelers?

    Unless ET's can get their craft into Earth's atmosphere without the friction and heat, seems to me they will be detected. Once they hit Earth's atmosphere, when they are detected, an alien craft is not going to follow the same line as a meteor...they will course correct and be identified as intelligent.

    A rudimentary crop circle can be created by weather but not those elaborate geometrically complex objects.

    I don't understand how a lie detector test in AZ can prove anything except that maybe all of them saw a 'light'. Maybe it was lightning? Some other natural occurrence? Did 5-6 people swear they saw a spaceship, aliens? I saw the movie and it is compelling but zero scientific evidence...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I can see an alien craft landing in Central Park, an alien walking down the gangplank, and BAM!! as someone shoots them...100 light years of travel and BAM!
     
  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Here is a scientific paper on UFOs published in a highly respected journal - JBIS - Journal of the British Interplanetary Society. The authors argue that cutting edge physics, as well as the credibility of certain high-value UFO cases, make it reasonable to look for evidence of visitors.

    Inflation-Theory Implications for Extraterrestrial Visitation
    http://www.calphysics.org/articles/JBIS.pdf
     
  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    You have to take the time to understand the facts of the case. Your explanation is not reasonable based on their testimony.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The links are illuding me, so take with as much salt as you want... there is a not insignifigant portion of the 'ufologist' community taking the stance that UFOs and NHEs are 'demonic.' Not necessarily biblical demons from hell (though some do suggest that) but malevolent extradimensional beings that exist in a (scientifically speaking) supernatural state. This theory is based on the physical impossibilities and 'ill will' they demonstrate, like:
    - high speed right angle maneuvers
    - appearing from and dissapearing to nothing
    - moving through solid matter
    - influencing humans telepathically
    - deceptitive behavior
    - taking people against their will
    - taking people over

    Of course, this is presuming that yet unproven accounts are accurate... but the same can be said of the entire subject of extraterrestrials.

    I find the notion compelling. The existance of extradimensional beings interacting with humanity would explain much of our spiritual history.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  15. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One thing Orson Wells had correct.



    Nuc
    'em first.
     
  17. Avery Jarhman

    Avery Jarhman Banned

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    I believe they are out there, and since they haven't tried to harm us, and according to some folks like Phil Corso, may have aided our tech advancement, I'm inclined to believe they are content studying the life they seeded here.

    Or perhaps they're simply using us for some type of morbid entertainment? :)

    Either way, for me it's been a mostly fun ride, so I'm grateful to them. :lol:
     
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  18. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    In the extreme, the claims are that there are many different species visiting; benevolent, malevolent, as well as indifferent. Ancient texts ranging from the Bible to the Ramayana talk about beings fighting great wars in the skies.

    I found The Mothman story interesting. I never really looked into it to verify the credibility of the accounts but allegedly it is well supported. And it is certainly a very very strange story. Made me think of an alien messing with him...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if there are visiting aliens or not. I don't know if visiting aliens would be benevolent or malevolent or indifferent. But after many decades of consideration, if I saw a real UFO close up, I'm with those three kids. I would run the other direction and hide. At the very least, alien technology could present any number of dangers in the form of radiation and perhaps other things we wouldn't understand. At worst, you might be plucked from the wilds like a random monkey catch, and used for experimentation.

    No matter how you slice it, any direct encounter with aliens is not likely to improve your life.

    A friend once mused about the alleged alien abductees, and said they all sound nuts. Well yes, I replied, but if aliens plucked you from your bed in the middle of the night, levitated you through your roof and into a mothership above, performed experiments on you, and then carefully placed you back in your bed, you would sound crazy too! So the problem is that anyone who was actually abducted by aliens, is certain to sound nuts. So being crazy isn't a falsifier.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I think Earthlings should be vigil, and I think we should be proactive in SETI, but to date we have no evidence of ET's. The Universe has been around ~13+ billion years, and if we knock off 4-5 billion years for intelligent life to develop as it has done on Earth, this tells me anything is possible during the past 8-9 billion years. Are there other physics that allow close to SOL travel, or weapons that can destroy Earth in a few minutes, and can intelligent beings learn how to exist for millions of years, etc. are questions we don't have answers. What is the reason and/or the possibility of ET's finding Earth during our very short ~150 years of detectable technology? I hope we find some answers and I hope it is a peaceful process. I also can accept that with the vast and hostile distances of the Universe that perhaps we'll never leave our Solar system...
     
  21. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I've read Walton flunked his first lie detector test, that one of the others didn't have a positive test, and there remains no tangible facts. It's an interesting story, and compelling, but truly nothing more than this...
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Favorite movie!
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I would certainly keep my distance because of prudence and not fear. Maybe some day we'll meet them and who knows what will happen? And yes there might be dangers but equally there might be great things to learn.

    I'm not going to judge those who claim close encounters or abductions, etc. but will instead wait for verifiable evidence...
     
  24. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    He passed several lie detector tests but failed one on a game show.

    One of six witnesses yielded inconclusive results. But he was hiding a criminal past. The other five passed.
    Five people faking a lie detector test is virtually impossible. That is a tangible fact.

    If you really knew the story, you wouldn't have suggested that they only saw a light.
     
  25. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    We have plenty of evidence, just not scientific evidence. But as noted, scientific evidence is difficult to obtain for any transient, rare, and unpredictable phenomenon. By their very nature, so-called UFO encounters are not reproducible. But one cannot logically or reasonably dismiss well documented, high credibility cases, such as military pilot encounters with UFOs.

    And SETI has received several possible alien transmissions, beginning with The Wow Signal.

    One can choose to believe or not to believe. But there is evidence for encounters with crafts not of earthly origin, and it can't be dismissed as trivial.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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