Extracting venom

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by FatBack, May 11, 2023.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Think your job sucks? You think your job is hazardous? Imagine this job. Extracting venom from a very large Florida cottonmouth or water moccasin as I always call them. Either name is proper for a common name but to be technically specific it is Agkistrodon conanti. The water moccasin along with rattlesnakes and copperheads are pit vipers but they water moccasins closest cousin is the copperhead. Copperhead venom is much more mild. If this guy here bit you there's a real chance you could die or easily lose a limb.


    https://fb.watch/ksS7MEnMUl/?mibextid=NnVzG8
     
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Prolly no one does that job that doesnt enjoy handling deadly snakes. Some people just do it as a hobby. I bet these folks tend to have their own deadly snakes at home as pets.

    Not to diminish their courage or contributions to science and medicine, but Im more impressed by the people that extract spider venom (or is it poisen? i know they're different, but i always forget which is which). I think I could clamp a snake by the head and milk it without harming it if I had to, but not a spider. The amount of pressure required to hold a spider vs the amount of pressure to crush a spider are too similar. Id end up squishing them or releasing them (probably onto myself), and spiders on me are spiders I have a problem with. Except jumping spiders. Jumping spiders are welcome, even on my person.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
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  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    For those that don't care for Facebook links I found a video of venom extraction from the South American Bushmaster pit viper


     
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  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I believe they use electronic stimulation for spider venom extraction. If it's injected by a bite or a sting it is venomous.

    If the toxin is absorbed or consumed it is poisonous.

    I have had a "pet" moccasin twice in my life. Once when I was 14 until my Canadian stepdad figured out what it was and made me help him kill it.

    " What kind of snake is that you got out in the shed eh " I told him it was a banded water snake and he said well it sure looks mean.... About a week later he went in my room and found a field guide and The jig was up.

    Even a Canadian could figure out that was a spicy noodle ! This would have been in the very early 90s so the internet was not yet at our fingertips.

    More recently a couple years ago I was fishing at a location and I was getting ready to leave around dusk and I was walking my dog and I saw a small snake standing out on the lime Rock and I figured it was probably a banded water snake. Got a bit closer and I saw that it was a baby moccasin.

    Most people that have no idea about snakes see any snake near the water and automatically assume it's a water moccasion. When in reality here in Florida we have three species of non-venomous water snakes that are most commonly seen in non-coastal regions. 90% of the time it's a non-venomous water snake.

    I was just going to relocate it as this was an area where a lot of people came down on golf carts to see the sunset and walk dogs and lots of small children around.

    But the little guy was just so cute I kept it for about 6 months and in that time it almost doubled in size.

    I was living alone at the time but then me and my girlfriend got a place together and I ended up releasing it deep in the wilderness because some people are just kind of funny and don't want to live with venomous snakes.

    I've got pictures around here somewhere in the forum but I have no idea how to find them. Pictures of the snake and the enclosure I built for him.

    Unfortunately about 5 months ago my phone fell out of my pocket on my motorcycle and got destroyed and naturally I lost all of the pictures I had. I think they might be buried in that show me your pet thread

    Now the first one I had when I was 14 I pinned his head with a stick and picked him up. I had always handled snakes but that was the first venomous one. I thought I had a good grip on them and lucky for me my thumbnail was growed out over the edge of my thumb because he twisted his head around and got me on the end of a thumb with one fand. If it wasn't for that thumbnail I'd probably be missing a thumb.

    That was the last time I actually picked one up behind the head like that. I was older and smarter with the second one and when I needed to do anything like clean his enclosure I used a snake stick like the hook you see, and kept a big empty garbage can right outside of the cage that the snake could not get out of.

    Unless you're actually milking venom like that, free handling a snake or picking it up behind the head is just asking for it
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
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  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    @modernpaladin

    Here is one video of extracting spider venom. Back in a minute with another one where I think they do the electrical stimulation


     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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  7. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have killed more cottonmouths than I can count, because we used to live right on the edge of the Everglades. My dog (Husky) was bit by one and her face swelled to almost twice the size and look pretty weird.

    Bushmaster is far more dangerous than cottonmouth
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe in killing snakes. It's not that difficult to safely relocate with a trash can and a hook as long as the lid goes on securely.

    Being not a dog trainer I don't know much about it but I do know they have snake avoidance techniques used in dog training

    So many people feel like they need to kill any snake cited near water.

    Oddly enough for good percentage of snake bites happen when people are trying to kill them
     
  9. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We had an agreement with the neighbors that we kill them since they were a danger to the kids in the neighborhood. Now we live in a more urban area and further from the Glades, so we dont see them (we see tons of rats and iguanas).

    The dog learned to avoid snakes after that incident
     
  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You're lucky the dog did not die. They do use Anti-Venom on dogs but most vets have no experience with snake bites and or access to the Anti-Venom and if they can find it it's very expensive.

    For that matter a lot of human doctors have very little experience with snake bite and often do all of the wrong things during treatment. Not using Anti-Venom until the swelling crosses two joints is a common mistake.

    Of course it might just boil down to the cost of the Anti-Venom and that's the last thing they want to use unless they absolutely must
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    A better video of venom extraction from a black widow.

     
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  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating details on the research aspects of the venom

     
  13. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Seems like they would have anti-venom available just in case, though.
     
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  14. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they do. I don't know how they make it anymore but I do know at one point it was made by injecting a horse with a small amount of venom and gradually working the amount of venom up until the horse had an immunity to an amount that would easily kill a regular horse, and then that blood serum was used as Anti-Venom.

    I would assume they possibly still make it the same way and perhaps that is one use of extracting the venom.... In addition to research.


    The cholesterol drug Lisinopril was derived from the venom of a South American viper.
     
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  15. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Lisinopril is an ace inhibitor, for blood pressure and renal protection. Lisinopril is synthetic, but ultimately I think it was developed from captopril, which is from some viper venom.
     
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  16. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I knew it was something like that. A lot of things that are chemically synthesized were originally designed from natural sources
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    can't do that with shaky hands...
     
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  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    CSIRO apparently makes anti venom not just for Australia but many overseas countries. The have even produced a version safe for dogs
    https://www.vetpracticemag.com.au/science-saving-mans-best-friend-deadly-snakes/
     
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  19. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Just an anecdotal story...
    In 1979 I was out in the boonies on a road march with my Basic Training Company. One of my guys got bitten by a Copperhead. I radio'd back for an ambulance. I road in with my trainee and one of my Drill Sergeants. All of a sudden the troop stopped breathing. I began to administer mouth-to-mouth while my Drill loosened his clothing. I tried to get him to breathe, as I had been taught. Well, what they DIDN'T tell me was that the first thing a guy does in this situation when he starts to breathe... is he throws up. So there I was with a mouthful of vomit (it was coming out my nose). I was covered with it. When we got to the ER some doctor in pristine whites started dressing me down for being so slovenly. By that time my Battalion Commander was there and started tearing the doctor a new one.
     
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