Extreme Right Tories are publicly promoting an imported extreme-right propaganda outfit

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by alexa, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a very disconcerting story but given the current situation not much of a surprise.

    https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2019/02/tory-mps-are-publicly-promoting.html

    What with the economic difficulties expected at least for some years after Brexit and the potential difficulties of climate change it is to be expected that a right wing Government will get started on this sort of stuff to control the population and keep democracy at bay,
     
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  2. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    The "extreme right" in the UK is kind of like the American moderate democrat huh?
     
  3. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You support this group I imagine given that you are apologising for them. Yes, the UK is as yet nowhere near as racist as the US...the point is to stop it going that way.
     
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to understand that being "right" is not a racist stance. "Right" on the political spectrum is more individualistic and racist are collectivist. I am sure what you are also conflating is that white racist are right wing and don't believe people of color can be racist right? There are plenty of racist blacks and latinos and Asians who are socialist. People's view of race or being a certain race doesn't automatically put them on the left or right side by default. Richard Spencer has the same views as Bernie Sanders or Louis Farrakhan, but just because Richard is also a white racist doesn't mean he becomes "right wing" because of the color of his skin.
     
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  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do understand that the extreme right from Hitler claimed their political views were being censored. Below from Another Angry Voice, link as above.

    [​IMG]
    I also aware that regarding tolerance
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

    Germany had been a very liberal society. They believed that if they just talked with those with no tolerance eventually they would come round. Instead while they were still talking all their rights and all tolerance was disappearing.

    and as far as free speech is concerned, it is one thing allowing that and allowing people to deliberately go in to groom young people at Universities.

    I don't think there is a question as to whether the West at the moment is on a cusp moving towards fascism and what is happening in Venezuela is part of that but to stick with this group you are advocating

    Not extreme right enough for you it would seem.

    That is the Independent article, link above. They do make the point that this is not done in the name of the Conservative Party just that those mentioned above are involved.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...would that be like young people having differing views from their adult betters do you mean..or are they all supposed to follow the establishment? Why is it so bad for youngsters to have political views be they left or right wing or otherwise? It seems that amongst students nowadays being a radical leftwinger is normal! But being a radical right winger gets the default Hitler treatment...boo....hiiissss....all very odd.
    I'm assuming from the posted article that the targetted audience...the cosy slipper wearers and the how green is my car brigade...that they are supposed to get all hot under the collar and huff and puff about the state of the youth of today and that it wouldn't have happened in my time!! You know the....when you could get't trolly bus to town splash out on't full monty cadge a bag a chips from't chipoil and still have ha'p'orth from a tanner..aye tut'world has gone to rats crap in't meantime...bloody youth of today....those sort of folk that don't like younger people to be heard...
    Sorry for being flippant but it all seems a bit stupid to me...if they turn out to be a radical bunch of heed'the balls then they'll fade and become just another set of raised eyebrows, but don't jump from a news article to Hitler without exploring the bits in the middle first.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  10. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not very surprizing. Here in France, we had a huge rise of criminality because of migrants or their descendants, and from what I understood, it's the same in UK.
    The left always refused a true debate on that matter and abused of the "nazi" insult. It's not very surprizing they provoke the rise of violent groups.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny but no one complains when communists show up for democrats.
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not believe there is a problem with migrants and their descendants in the UK. There certainly is not in Scotland. About Nazi, someone was talking about people going on about that, though they were thinking about fascist and their response was that they would rather over do it than allow fascism to come into being which is what happened in Germany because Liberals thought they ought to be tolerant and talk to them. There is definitely a point in bringing that in because now we are at a position where we may very well be moving into a new form of fascism, if we are not there already.

    Now, while the Tory extreme right and UKIP used racism to get the Brexit vote and probably without that they would not have got it and there apparently are some parts of the UK where the Government has not acted as it should and provided facilities for newcomers, this is not anything to do with anyone in the UK. This is a group from the US who are accused of mainstreaming far right ideas there and now is intent on bringing them to the UK Universities. You politically are on that side - or in some ways are on that side and so may or may not join them.

    Here is Hope Not Hates article on them. Here they are talking about their US Summit

    https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2018/12/14/turning-point-usa-summit-exercise-mainstreaming/

    and here is another talking about it coming to the UK where they do at least think it does not have much change of taking on here.



    We do have a growing problem with right wing extremism here of course. As far as Tommy Robinson is concerned he is now financed by the US.

    The important thing is that people know.

    The UK is going for Brexit because some people claimed they wanted more democracy. In fact I have already supplied evidence to suggest that we are going to have none of that but are rather going to become a permanent poodle of the US, an economic colony as one put it, losing much of our rights. This is the social/political side. This US group which has become quite good at mainstreaming far right thinking in the US wanting to come and do it to their economic colony here. We have to accept that in particular if there is No Deal, the UK is going to be vulnerable in a way I think is still too much for some to imagine. May has made arrangements to bring in Military rule in the UK which gives you an idea of how concerned she is. Seeing a country vulnerable is absolutely the time that the far right would choose to try and brainwash people that fascism is the best.

    People need to know. There are people who vote for the Tories who are socially quite leftist. There certainly are plenty in the Tory Party who would have none of this so if people like Rees-Mogg and Preti Patel are intent on indoctrinating kids when they go to college then everyone needs to know and to be aware of just how far to the right some in the Tory Party have gone.

    People would also want to warn their kids and then of course there are our laws which do not allow nearly as much free speech on hate as in the US so that would play its part.

    There has been the most massive work done here to stop Muslims from indoctrinating people at University. Obviously the same would need to be done if it was found that the far right were trying to groom them. This is probably the most emotionally vulnerable time in a person's life when they need a sense of belonging so that makes some more vulnerable - not by any means all, just some as we found when Muslims were at it. We have recently seen a big rise in far right extremism. Our security services need to put their work there on a par with that of Muslim terrorists. Far Right extremism over Brexit led to one of our MP's being killed and an increasing number reporting getting death threats from same.

    Yes, I believe at the moment we are in a pre fascist era...and only just pre fascist if that. I do not give it my vote.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  13. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is about this and I am aware that there are some on this forum who are of this thinking.

    https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2018/12/14/turning-point-usa-summit-exercise-mainstreaming/
     
  14. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @alexa We're not living in a historical loop. Yes democracy is threatened, but fascism is probably not the biggest threat. Furthermore it have been to be remembered that the thirties was not only the rise of fascism, but too leftist totalitarian regimes like communist. I don't get why right winged totalitarism obsess people that more than left winged one. And furthermore, in France, but apparently in the UK too, most medias are owned by a few billionaires. Whoever possess the information possess the entire society.

    However that belief that history is a loop is dangerous, because people may miss the specificities of their time and while fighting chimeras, in the end they forget to fight the real struggles.

    Massive migration have been of an incredible violence for many lobal population, aswell the incoming populations. UK remaing the country where the horrific events of rotherham and telford happened.
    Many people are hopeless in front of the rise of insecurity and criminality, you reap what you sow, many people were scorned and ignored, that's logical they go to whoever pretend to listen to them.
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    yeah Robinson....Robinson is a wanker of cosmic proportions and yes I'm sure some yanks just gobble him up but he's never going to be taken seriously here...why? Because he's a total imbecile and the UK is more tolerant that you seem to give credit to.
     
  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No sorry I do not give any excuses for people wanting to mainstreme extreme right views which is what we are talking about. It has already been proved that being tolerant towards intolerance ends in the destruction of tolerance. If we want to remain a liberal democracy it is essential that we be intolerant to intolerance. For those who do not want us to clearly the opposite is the truth and they will scream for people to be tolerant for their thinking when that thinking is to destroy the tolerance of Liberal Democracy. The extreme Right and Liberal Democracy do not go together. We even know from this site that much of mainstream thinking in the US sees the word Liberal as something they must destroy.

    Not just history but present times show its relationship to violence to be something which must be given as much attention as Irish or Muslim terrorism. The idea of trying to indoctrinate our students into this while without question a way I would expect such people to try as it has the potential to be very effective, given that we are not an extreme right country, and that is what we are talking about, mainstreaming the extreme right, cannot be supported by any who do not want an extreme right country. This country has always been ruthless over any kind of this activity whether it came from Catholics in Ireland or Muslims in the UK. We have way overdone this interfering with their liberties to an extent I did not agree with. If we now have people intent on mainstreaming the extreme right then if we do not take the same approach to them we are indicating that extreme right opinion has already been mainstreamed which to a fair extent it has. The fact that you are arguing for mainstreaming of the extreme right suggests you have already bought this thinking.

    I had wondered why Rees-Mogg was talking about wanting UKIP to join the 'Conservative' Party. It is also noted that the person who was involved in trying to mainstream the extreme right in the UK was a 'Leave' activist. I do not for one minute believe that that is what the vast majority of Leave supporters want but it is an indication of where one of their leaders, one who has moved his assets to Ireland so clearly does not see it as likely to be a good financial decision for the UK wants to take us, Fascism is not 'Conservative' so possibly this is connected to the splitting up of the Tory Party, something May appears to believe stopping is more important than getting a good Brexit Deal. Hence if the split occurs I would not expect the Rees-Mogg crowd to keep the name Conservative.
     
  17. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @alexa Do you really they think they're waiting for some people to excuse them for having their opinions ?

    If you want to keep the rule of law, I'm not even speaking of democracy, just rule of law, then you have to keep security. Democracy isn't a fundamental need. It's important, but if you ask a bunch of starving people what they want the most, they will answer you food, not democracy. If you ask a bunch of people which live under the threat of murderers or mafia, they will answer you security.

    Democracy need a lot of infrastructures. First you need security, chaos will always lead to dictatorship, second, you need good trustworthy newspapers, because no democracy can live if the citizens is lacking of the second.
    Because most newspapers today tend to fall either under the sphere of influence of the state (I speak in that case of France) or billionaires, we have already lost the second.

    If you worry for democracy, then you should worry for peace and security in your country.

    People saw their perfectly peacefull country in the 60's turned into a country where children are slaughtered during concerts (Manchester) or a country where hundred of children are sexually enslaved for years before the state react. The most peacefull bitch become the most enraged beast when you threaten her puppies, and so is for most herbivores which are turned into agressive animals once you threaten. That's the same for human. How do you think that most dictatorship keep in line their population ? Threatening people, no. Threatening their family ? Yes.

    That's years and years that the fondations of your democracy is destroyed by diverse factors, and, yes now the house is slowly collapsing. Should you restore the house first or its foundations ?
     
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  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry VoltreAltress, this thread is not on your views of Muslims. It is about a desire to make extreme right thinking mainstream in the UK. Extreme right thinking leads to some form of Fascism. You may support that. My country does not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  19. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @alexa I neither support fascism or that kind of violence which is too impose vast foreign populations to some indigenous population. I didn't spoke of muslims, I mentionned islamic terrorism and telfort/rotherham case. Are you saying that all muslims are terrorists or enslaving teenage girls ?

    I just state an obvious fact : if you destroy every conditions that enable democracy, yes, democracy perish. If you want democracy to survive and fight fascist movements, then you have to win on the matter of security and indenpendance of the information sources.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said you did. I said
    so I said as you are supporting the attempt to mainstream far right thinking in the UK and as far right thinking leads to some form of fascism, given that you are supporting the attempt to indoctrinate this in students, you may support fascism. It would go with your support of the intent to make extreme right thinking mainstream in the UK

    I do actually agree with you that if you destroy the conditions for democracy, you destroy democracy which of course is a massive plus for the United Kingdom to take the strongest possible measures to make sure that Jacob Rees-Mogg's intent to indoctrinate University students to get the extreme right mainstream in the UK is unsuccessful. Fascism is not democracy. Being tolerant of extreme right thinking destroys democracy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019

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