F-35 grounding at Arizona base extended indefinitely amid hypoxia probe

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by D0nRumataEst0rsky, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Tijuana

    Tijuana Well-Known Member

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    An F-15 is NOT a drone. It's a real jet, with a real guy inside. Two of them, actually. What are you talking about? Why can you just not admit your point is nonsense?

    WE DO NOT NOW, NOR HAVE WE EVER, FIRED LIVE MISSILES AT REAL JETS, WITH REAL PEOPLE IN THEM. (at least not our own)

    Please stop lying, and trying to get out of your completely ridiculous statements.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  2. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The 82nd Aerial Target Squadron at Tyndall and Holloman AFB operates the Department of Defense's only full-scale aerial target program, maintaining an inventory of 50 modified QF-4 Phantom II aircraft for this purpose.

    The QF-4 Phantoms are full sized jet aircraft flown by remote pilots.

    http://airman.dodlive.mil/tag/82nd-aerial-target-squadron/

    The "Skeeters" are what I was originally talking about. Drones.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/53d_Weapons_Evaluation_Group#/media/File:82_TATS_BQM-167_Skeeter.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  3. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    Because since the end of WW2, technology plays a larger piece in the outcome of war than people do. You can have the best sniper in the world, but a single drone or even satellite can see him no matter how good the hide is.

    Before a modern ground army is put into combat action, aircraft have already disrupted communications, supply, and command of their opponent. Without those 3 things, you cannot win a modern set piece war. The only hope is to mix with civilian populations and use guerrilla tactics.

    No country can win the air war against the US today. No aircraft in the world has the capabilities of the F22 or the F35.
     
  4. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An F22 can muster as many live shots as it is linked to.

    For instance, if it is flying a sortie with multiple drones linked to its platform, it can launch missiles from any of those other aerial platforms.

    And I use the word shots because it also has the capability of being able to fire from an ATL platform. The new high-energy chemical oxygen iodine laser is also part of its arsenal.

    Most of the F22 and F35 pilots have never even fired their 480 round conventional mounts.

    And I don't think that the Russians and Chinese can even come close to what Raytheon and others have set the table with.
     
  5. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    I'm just amazed at how stupid some Americans are. I've never met such fools. I'm more and more convinced how much George Carlin is right.

     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did not say we did. What does this have to do with your ridiculous claim that an F22 could beat 10 F-15's ?

    You are the one that is dying on the mountain. Give it up already.
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a whole lot of experts claiming the F-35 is a lemon. Even the Pentagon admits that this play is still not yet ready for combat.

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ealth-fighter-may-never-be-ready-combat-17636

    Drones - at present- do not fly at speeds enabling them to keep up with fighter aircraft engaging hostile fighters.

    Neither the F-22 or the F-35 has a Laser as part of its arsenal.

    You are projecting the future into the present.
     
  8. Tijuana

    Tijuana Well-Known Member

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    Who cares? You are still wrong about the main point, no matter how far you move the goal posts.
     
  9. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, you are not interested in my point, about real jets being used as targets.

    So be it.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  10. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    As of yet I can't see how it will fill requirements for Marine use: With its fragile skin, one and a half hours of flight, limited gun armement and small wings, it will be hard to equal A-10s or Harriers (that the marines have been buying everywhere they could find them of late).

    The one thing at which the F-35 is universally hard to beat is burning out ressources.

    I'm not buying it. Apart for stealth, which is IMO a failed concept in fighters, there's little in terms of avionics to differentiate 4th gen-and-a-half and 5th gen birds. The real "5th gen" fighters shall be drones.

    There a lot of way to go; Both the Raptor and the Lightning are hangar divas, offering a terrible flight/maintenance ratio. It may not be a problem for a country which has such lavish military ressources as the US, but for Canada, reliable Superhornets are definitely more efficient, despite the "obsolescence".
     
  11. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Not a big deal - the Rafale is probably the best fighter of its type. These Eurocanards are fine dogfighters.
     
  12. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    At this point I believe the logical next step would be to remove the pilot altogether. The human elements costs a lot in terms of performence, like weight, various subsystems and limits the performence of the machine - like the with the limited Gs the human body can take.
     
  13. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First of all, drones don't have to be even close to the platform. Right now, an F22 can launch a missile from a drone which could literally be thousands of miles away.

    And the air force has several unmanned combat jets that are controlled in house at Creech and other bases just like the predators are.

    Second, while the F35 has different release bays, the F22 is a different story. 20 megawatts from 60,000 feet is pretty invasive.

    And don't forget that a laser platform doesn't have to be on the actual aircraft for the combat pilot to utilize it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  14. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Yep, yep - and yet I wouldn't advise you squaring off with them russkies. Even the finest flower of the Aryans was no match for them russkies. They're made out of iron, they are mean, and they are numerous.
     
  15. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, kewl - nobody cares. Slap yourself out of it, dude.
     
  16. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Doing so will give it a very high electronic signature, and thus eliminate its stealth "advantage", and in such conditions the best electronics wins; Stealth become a disavantge. This job you describe would be better for an AWACS-type of platform.

    Lasers are cool, but limited to LOS and much too easy to block with rain, smoke, fog etc.

    Most F22 and F35 have never even fired a shot in an actual fight.

    They have a tendency to get imaginative, whereas the US can still afford throwing money at a problem. Sometimes, countermeasures are quite cheap when compared to the measures they were made to counter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  17. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The F 22 has a combat ceiling of about 60,000 feet so a 20 megawatt laser stream wouldn't be hampered by the cloud cover. And beam jitter is not as significant in the upper atmosphere..

    When I mentioned the 480 rounds, I also meant that many pilots have never even fired those guns in training.
    The spent casings
    don't leave the aircraft
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  18. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    You sure about that? I am not baiting you BTW - I just thought that light-based weapons are hard to use at long ranges because of the environment. I would favor rail guns myself as a high-velocity weapon able to intercept one of these hypersonic missiles that are developping in the east, and that would be fleet killers. Maybe a rail gun is a bit too massive to put on an aerial platform yet, thought.

    If F-35s are doing marines support, they will use it, believe you me. They will also also use it if they expend all of their carried load. Isn't it something like 180x25mm rounds, or 220 with the external pod, anyway?

    PS: I just checked and the 480 round capacity is for the f-22's 20mm rotary autocannon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK .. this is getting silly. The range of AA missiles is a few hundred miles - not thousands.


    Not sure what your point is here.

    We do not yet have laser's capable of significant military application - such as taking out a plane or missile. Further - even when we develop this capability it will be a long time before they are effective at the ranges in question.

    You are projecting the future onto the present.
     
  20. Tijuana

    Tijuana Well-Known Member

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    They can be mean all they want, if they want to invade the US, they will have to get us to give them a ride across the ocean. Russia has a navy on par with Cuba.
     
  21. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says dey need to fix dat a-fore somebody conks out inna cockpit...
    [​IMG]
    Air Force: No Clear Cause for F-35A Hypoxia-Related Problem
    16 Jun 2017 | The revelation comes one week after the service grounded all 55 F-35A Lightning IIs at Luke Air Force Base.
     
  22. NMNeil

    NMNeil Well-Known Member

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    You mean a marine versus a soldier, check out her uniform.
    Russia's last war was in Afghanistan, which they admitted they couldn't win after 8 years of fighting. The US has been in Afghanistan for 16 years now and still won't admit that they can't win.
    As for the finest fighting force in the world. It used to be true that they were good, but never the best.
     
  23. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right now, an F22 can launch a missile from a remote drone using satellite positioning. The F22 does not lose any stealth characteristics when it does this.

    Boeing has outfitted, out of service, F16 aircraft for drone target missions. The F16s have been tested at 7Gs without a hitch. 9Gs or more would be a plus.

    Arming an F16 with air to air weapons and letting it fly at mach 2 in front of an F22 in combat would allow the F22 pilot to identify the target and fire at it from the F16 platform without losing any stealth whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This integration is a cool part of 5th generation technology.

    While the F-22 may be stealthy - the F-16's are not. You would then not fly the F-16 in front of the F-22.

    You would fly the F-22 in front of the F-16 to maintain stealth as long as possible.

    I agree that drone fighter aircraft are the way of the future (and that future is pretty much here). Every major military power (and even minor ones) are working on this technology.

    This technology will make all our fleet of manned fighters essentially obsolete. The F-35 .. which will not be combat ready until at least 2020 - will be obsolete by that time or shortly after.

    Not only will the fighters be drones, the missiles they fire will also be drones.

    Russia has been on the forefront of missile technology and we have been playing catch-up since they introduced the Sunburn - super sonic anti ship cruise missile in the 90's.

    The latest innovation is the Zircon which travels at hyper-sonic speeds .. 4600 mph to over 6000 mph, is stealthy, and maneuverable. It is essentially a drone missile.

    This missile has an unprecedented range of 640 miles.
     
  25. Tijuana

    Tijuana Well-Known Member

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    Our females don't have full combat duty rights. Your notion that this woman is a US Marine soldier is ridiculous. Educate yourself before you run your mouth.
     

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