Facebook founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg supports an idea called universal basic income.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Troianii, May 26, 2017.

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Does this sound like a good idea to you?

  1. Yes

    10.2%
  2. No

    77.6%
  3. Not sure/other

    12.2%
  1. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    $1,000,000,000
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  2. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I am done if you don't know what I mean by country.
     
  3. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's one of your collectivist constructs.
     
  4. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People are so attached to social security as it is because they've been sold a lie - that their money was invested and set aside for their retirement. That isn't what happened. It was always the younger generation paying up to the older generation, and that's all it is now - a cash transfer from the young to the old.

    With this proposal, you wouldn't need much at all to be above poverty level. 9k/yr, medicare/medicaid would still be in place, and how much would you have to work to cover the rest? $3,000/yr? That's a few hundred hours a year at minimum wage - that's it. If people have to work a little bit to pay for movie tickets, so be it.

    It's not the job - it's the employee. Just answer me this - if raising the minimum wage won't price people out of the market, then why not have a $1,000/hr minimum wage? Then everyone would be great, right? Obviously not - if we raise the minimum wage to $15/hr, you're going to see many people without jobs at all - let them get their foot in the door somewhere or they'll be perpetually poor.

    Most things that hurt the poor are well-intentioned.

    OK - that's no where near $500 billion. Maintenance on our nuclear arsenal is supposed to cost $348b over the next decade (per a quick google search), so roughly $30b/yr in today's figures. The benefits of a nuclear arsenal far outweigh 30b/yr in costs.
     
  5. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, if a employer doesn't think a job is worth paying $50/hr then that job ain't worth having. It's not about the "what ignorant people are welling to accept" argument. Just delete the jobs that don't have an ROI worthy of competition at the $50/hr rate that employees cannot survive on. And for those employers that think some people can (because they currently do) let them take that pay-cut and try it for themselves. When we sell or bye products built overseas (at slave wage labor costs) to keep cost down and profits high, what we're really doing is shipping our money overseas (where it remains and isn't taxed or contributing to our GDP). It destroys our entire economy. If minimum wage workers are making seven times as much to work in the US then they can also spend seven times as much as consumers in the US economy (which gets taxed locally). This doesn't even include our rise in exports over imports. That means more money flowing into the US instead of out. Tax revenues could increase by 700% and taxpayers wouldn't even notice. that would be an increase in $16.8 trillion a year in revenues. We could erase the national debt and be in a surplus within the first two years just based off income tax alone. That's not even considering sale tax via consumerism, or exports, or any of the other cuts I mentioned.



    This is where I got that $500 billion number.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  6. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    The only reason the children aren't as neglected is due to the fact that the EBT Card makes it hassle to engage in Food Stamp Fraud. Giving cash to irresponsible people is not a responsible thing to do.
     
  7. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    It's your hogwash, since I never said UBI is doomed to fail. I simply said you cannot afford UBI.

    In any event, you fail to understand that Universal Basic Income is an amount of money given to everyone, and everyone gets the same amount monthly/annually, rich or poor.

    As I mentioned previously and as you failed to understand, housing costs in the US vary greatly from State-to-State, so that it would be impractical to give people money for housing in lieu of HUD Section 8 benefits.

    Do you even have a clue what Universal Basic Income is?

    A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, Citizen's Income, unconditional basic income, universal basic income, or universal demogrant[2]) is a form of social security[3] in which all citizens or residents of a country regularly receive a regular, unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, in addition to any income received from elsewhere.

    And you are so blind as to not be able to see that $1,341/month would not even cover basic necessities for many Americans.

    Again, you're totally lost and don't understand the concepts:

    1] Universal Basic Income is paid to everyone, rich and poor alike, which is why it's called "Universal."

    2] Everyone, rich and poor alike, receives the same amount of money monthly/annually (again, hence "Universal")

    3] Proponents of UBI claim it will replace all Welfare Programs, including Social Security.

    4] I proved, and you have not been able to refute, that the average monthly benefit for Social Security, which is $1,341 would require an excessive amount of taxes to fund.

    5] I also proved that at $1,341/month, you'd still have people who qualify for HUD Section 8 housing benefits, with the point being that you'd have to pay more than $1,341/month to eliminate HUD Section 8 as a Welfare Program.

    Those are the facts....see if you can address them.
     
  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support an idea which would be far better for the economy and the people. I call it "Universal Basic Work", in which we give all those on welfare basic jobs- and we pay them on a piece-work basis, which means they have full control over their income.. or lack of it. Produce and earn; do nothing, and get nothing in return.

    Can't really take credit for the idea, though- nature devised it years ago. It's kind like "If you don't hunt, you don't eat". Sure-fire plan, works.every time.
     
    Hoosier8 likes this.
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Handing people money doesn't make them any more employable than welfare by another name.
     
  10. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It actually kinda does. Existing programs have onerous restrictions, so if someone receiving welfare benefits picks up more hours, they lose benefits worth far more than what they'd gain by picking up those hours.

    For God sake's people - open your damn eyes. Get off the "hate poor people" train and look at this for what it is - government welfare programs effectively work to keep people poor. They penalize people who want to better themselves in an incredibly draconian way. What I'm suggesting is a way to get rid of such onerous penalties, and remove inefficiencies in the system, so that people will better themselves - and society as a whole. Most people stuck on welfare aren't just lazy idiots looking for a handout - most are doing what makes the most sense for themselves and their families, and picking up a couple extra thousand at work a year at the cost of 10k worth in benefits is not something that you can expect any intelligent person to do.

    So much kneejerking.
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's why I said we need a program that teaches skills, good decision making, and personal responsibility.

    Handing people anything, be it a college degree or a paycheck, does none of those things. Human nature means people do not appreciate or place value on things they get for free.

    You won't hear me approving of the current system of welfare, which is gamed by participants to the max degree. People actually get divorced but continue to live together in order for one of them to receive government benefits.

    What we need is a program that evaluates aptitude of an individual, then works to train and place them in jobs.

    What we need is a system where the rewards are based on the effort put in. That would lead to all kinds of positive results.

    Teaching people they're owed money just for breathing is the opposite of effort equals reward.
     

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