Fallacies of Evolution Redux

Discussion in 'Science' started by ChemEngineer, May 9, 2017.

  1. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    Of course, you understood. You are embarrassing yourself. Typos are not indicative of low intelligence...but your fallacies and proud ignorance of basic knowledge possessed by 9 year olds might be...
     
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  2. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    There is the WHO list of deceases, and there is a full history of discovering and treating them.

    Can you show me one, just one, which uses evolution in any way and couldn’t not be treated by an MD who is a creationist?

    Will you advise Spooky not bring her 4th grader to brain surgeon who has performed 20,000 successful brain surgeries, has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, dozens of national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications and openly disdains evolution?

    Reality is in total contraditcion to your slogans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  3. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that Typos are not indicative of low intelligence.
    I said that unwillingness to explain or rephrase if somebody tells you that he did not understand and asks you to do is a sign of low intelligence and nasty personality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  4. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    Absolutely. An MD cannot treat with appropriate vaccines and antibiotics, without the benefit of evolutionary theory that was used to invent them. Measles, polio, strep infections, and more. I already covered that. You are embarrassing yourself. You beg strangers to spoonfeed you information...they do, despite the fact that you do not deserve this courtesy...then you ignore their efforts...

    By the way, evolution is a fact. You would fail a 6th grade science test.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  5. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    Not always, and especially not when the person asking is playing stupid just to troll.
     
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  6. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    You have not demonstrated yet a single use of evolution for invention of a single vaccine or antibiotic .

    You have demonstrated that you cannot point to a single vaccine or antibiotic and show how ever evolution played any role in invention it.

    Therefore your claim remains to be just a blind religious, fanatical belief.

    I already pointed that inventors of antibiotics considered evolution not to be a theory and did not need it.

    But that was not the question.

    Thank you for another demonstration that no believer in evolution can understand, less answer simplest questions.

    The questions remain to be the same.

    There is the WHO list of deceases, and there is a full history of discovering and treating them.

    Can you show me one, just one, which uses evolution in any way and couldn’t not be treated by an MD who is a creationist?

    Will you advise Spooky not bring her 4th grader to brain surgeon who has performed 20,000 successful brain surgeries, has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, dozens of national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications and openly disdains evolution?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  7. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how much more simple can it be.

    Claiming that evolution is used in diagnoses and treatment of deceases one has to illustrate, to take at least one decease and to show how evolution was used.

    Claiming that evolution is used for invention of antibiotics one has to take at least one antibiotic and to show how evolution was used.

    It is not like the plank is set higher than the 4th grade, - one, just one, uno, ein.

    Otherwise the claims still remain blind religious beliefs, and believers in evolution who have not been capable immediately to come up with one, uno, ein illustration only prove again and again that evolution is a mindless religion.

    Especially when it has been pointed that inventors of all antibiotic science did not consider evolution to be a scientific theory and a neurosurgeon who has performed 20,000 successful brain surgeries, has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, dozens of national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications openly disdains evolution.

    I am giving the believers full advantage.
    I am not mentioning that they should have something to back up a claim before they made and repeat it for 5 days, and I am not asking for a lot of illustrations.

    Just one, uno, ein.

    Google, don't forget talkingorigins.com, I just love to see that side in references, take your time.

    One, justone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  8. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    So is yours for every time you avoid showing the evidence for your claims.
     
  9. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    The irony is so strong here.
     
  10. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    Scientific theory. Not a religion. A religion revolves around supernatural beliefs.
     
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  11. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Please repeat your question as succinctly as possible.

    Also, please remember that the point is that evolution is a foundation of all modern biology. That doesn't mean that nothing else is going on. For example, physics and Chemistry are happening, too. Yet, your doctor may not be directly using physics when he/she diagnoses a disease.
     
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  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You just flipped to engineering. In airplanes, for example, there are numerous tradeoffs in design. There isn't some number that answers the questions for wing design. In my airplane, if the total weighs is a certain amount and I turn at a particular rate it makes me more vulnerable to wind speed changes that could be damaging. There's a whole set of curves along with directions concerning how not to have parts come off your airplane! It's about risk management as well as design.
    You're forgetting that there are a lot of variables in most diseases. Individual humans have various factors of heredity and exposure in ways that are not identical or 100%.

    The result is that your doctor will use "may" a lot.

    There are times he/she probably won't - like when some factor gets higher or lower than a number that is generally considered a limit where you should start being concerned. But, that number isn't necessarily the same for you as it is for others. Doctors needed a line, and someone looked at the results and decided where to draw a line. But, the data rarely if ever looks like a level line that skyrockets after some number is hit. And, the shape of the curve is for people in general - not you. It's just that you may be near the average and may be taking on more risk than you should if you go over the line - on cholesterol, or whatever.

    So, you may not hear "may", but "may" is the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  14. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    It is not about if the doctor can, but whether one should trust a doctor that went through all the biology courses required for college and med school and still thinks that creationism is real. A doctor that, even after being presented with overwhelming evidence that evolution is real, still clings to 4.000 year old myths. If I was infected with MRSA or c. difficile could I trust that this doctor would give me the proper treatment instead of just another round of antibiotics? After all, antibiotic resistance is the result of natural selection. The answer is no, I could not trust a creationist doctor with my life or the life of my loved ones. Why? Because if they are so blinded by their religious beliefs to ignore all the evidence of evolution, I cannot trust them to make the right decision in regards to my healthcare. I'm not saying that a creationist doctor can't do the right thing, but I can't trust that they will.

    As for your other points:

    Yes, a small minority of scientists question evolution. Next please.

    I assume you are talking about Gregor Mendel. I'm not sure how his interest/disinterest in Darwin's work is has any bearing on creationism or evolution.

    :roflol:Seriously? Actually the Soviets banned genetics because it disproved Lysenkoism, a discredited alternate theory to evolution. Lysenkosim is responsible for mass famine in the Soviet Union.

    Why? Evolution has nothing to do with the testing of antibiotics.

    Substituting religion for science makes you a bad parent and teacher. I don't know if you are a mean bi^ch.
     
  15. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    1. Fact: MDs are taught only disciplines MDs will use to diagnose and treat deceases.

    2. Fact.: MDs are taught biology.

    3. Fact: TOE is the foundation of biology.

    4. Fact: TOE is obviously is used by MDs to diagnose and treat deceases.

    5. If any questions go to 1.

    Of course, any questions are silly (and here, I can only guess - comes a real physical pain and fear to be shown to be silly - by the teacher, by mom, and to be laughed at, mocked and ridiculed by peers.
    That’s why believers in evolution are so fanatical, - they fear the physical pain.
    That’s why the believers to evolution react to any reality by mocking and ridiculing and end falling into a rage.)



    All I asked to take one decease, one bacteria and illustrate how evolution is used by MDs because whoever I can appreciate the iron logic and the 5 steps program, I would like to see what’s going in reality.

    Nothing, just the 5 steps program running again and again.

    I was betting everything on one, just one - nothing.

    No believer in the evolution is ever interested in reality.:



    A 2005 national survey of 1,472 liberal physicians shows that they ALL do not treat evolution as a science and almost 47% of them take creationism over evolution as a personal belief.

    That’s in 2005, long after evolution was imposed as a state religion in the US.


    Will one just one believer in evolution see the reality?


    Here what a professor of a medical school explains confirming the survey:

    Doctors don’t study evolution. Doctors never study it in medical school, and they never use evolutionary biology in their practice. There are no courses in school on evolution. There are no ‘professors of evolution’ in medical schools. There are no departments of evolutionary biology in medical schools.

    If you needed treatment for a brain tumor, your medical team would include a physicist (who designed the MRI that diagnosed your tumor), a chemist and a pharmacologist (who made the medicine to treat you), an engineer and an anesthesiologist (who designed and used the machine that give you anesthesia), a neurosurgeon (who did the surgery to remove your tumor), a pathologist (who studied the tumor under a microscope and determined what type of tumor it was), and nurses and oncologists (who help you recover and help make sure the tumor doesn’t come back). There would be no evolutionary biologists on your team.

    I am a professor of neurosurgery, I work and teach at a medical school, I do brain research, and in 20 years I’ve performed over 4000 brain operations. I never use evolutionary biology in my work.

    …I do use many kinds of science related to changes in organisms over time. Genetics is very important, as are population biology and microbiology. But evolutionary biology itself, as distinct from these scientific fields, contributes nothing to modern medicine.

    Without using evolutionary theory, doctors and scientists have discovered vaccines (Jenner, in the 18th century, before Darwin was born), discovered that germs cause infectious diseases (Pasteur, in the 19th century, who ignored Darwin), discovered genes (Mendel, in the 19th century, who was a priest and not a supporter of Darwin’s theory), discovered antibiotics, and unraveled the secrets of the genetic code (the key to these discoveries was the discovery of the apparent design in the DNA double helix). Heart, liver, and kidney transplants, new treatments for cancer and heart disease, and a host of life-saving advances in medicine have been developed without input from evolutionary biologists. No Nobel prize in medicine has ever been awarded for work in evolutionary biology. In fact, I think it’s safe to say that the only contribution evolution has made to modern medicine is to take it down the horrific road of eugenics, which brought forced sterilization and bodily harm to many thousands of Americans in the early 1900s. That’s a contribution which has brought shame–not advance–to the medical field.

    Michael Egnor, M.D.


    Would any believer in evolution open the link or read the text?

    They can’t, they will just feel an objection and their minds get blocked by the fear of the physical pain.

    They will slip into 5 steps program and continue to point to the fact that evolution is used by MDs to diagnose and treat deceases.

    Evolution is a theory and a fact.



    Watch:

    Hey, believers in evolution, do they teach evolution in medical schools?

    Yes or no?

    As I said no believer in evolution can understand, less answer a simple question.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    In scientific method, a fact is a recorded observation, like a temperature reading taken at a specific place and time and using a specific method.

    So, the ToE is not a fact.

    Theories are one or more hypotheses that have gone through a rigorous process of confirmation including attempts to prove they are false, and that are useful tools in further scientific investigation.

    So, the ToE is a theory.
    The school of science at most if not all serious 4 year universities considers applicants to have been taught the fundamentals of the theory of evolution before application. If not, it is a deficit.

    I highly doubt any medical school would accept applicants who, after 4 years of university level science, still do not have a reasonably thorough understanding of the theory of evolution. At the least, they would expect applicants to show what they are doing to make up for their deficit.
    Remember: Nobody has said that a doctor would use the ToE while diagnosing or treating patients. You are the one talking about doctors - yet you haven't explained WHY you are talking about doctors.

    In many respects, doctors who are seeing patients are more like engineers - consuming knowledge gained by scientists and other engineers before them. Listen to the doctor you quote. Is that doctor talking about research and experimentation - no!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  17. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Michael Egnor is a supporter of Intelligent Design and writes blogs for the Discovery Institute.
    His opinions of evolution are not objective; if anything they’re tainted because of his religious beliefs.

    The Discovery Institute is a non-profit religious "think" tank notoriously famous for its attempts to have intelligent design/creationism taught in American schools.

    Conservative "think tank's" such as the Discovery Institute that exist only to spread ideological propaganda are some of the most Orwellian institutions in existence. In fact the public manipulation of facts and misinformation campaigns promulgated by such conservative groups are what lead to an Orwellian state.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  18. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    It's a scientific theory actually. Flawed maybe. But not a reigion. I've never seen churches, temples, or worship of any evolutionary deity.
     
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  19. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    That's quite the rant. Or course it is totally void of any evidence (you should make sure to link to your sources).

    To answer your last question, "do they teach evolution in medical schools?", the answer is no. They don't teach evolution in medical schools because medical students would have already taken biology in their undergraduate classes and have been taught evolution there. As we have been saying, evolution is the foundation of modern biology. Medicine is the advanced application of biology. No, you don't need to know evolution of perform brain surgery or set broken bones, but it is probably a good idea to have a basic understanding of natural selection when dealing with antibiotic resistant bacteria.
     
  20. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    Nothing of what you are saying reflect reality.

    Any idea probably is a good idea...

    The reality:
    Ernst Chain who shared Nobel prize for discovery antibiotics as we know them with Fleming (Roman Catholic, Creationist) openly opposed Darwinism on the basis of his scientific research "very feeble attempt" to explain the origin of species based on assumptions so flimsy, "mainly of morphological and anatomical nature," that "it can hardly be called a theory’’.

    Without using evolutionary theory, doctors and scientists have discovered vaccines (Jenner, in the 18th century, before Darwin was born), discovered that germs cause infectious diseases (Pasteur, in the 19th century, who ignored Darwin), discovered genes (Mendel, in the 19th century, who was a priest and not a supporter of Darwin’s theory), discovered antibiotics, and unraveled the secrets of the genetic code (the key to these discoveries was the discovery of the apparent design in the DNA double helix).

    Don't let facts confuse you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018

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