Fastest Growing Energy Job Market is Renewables

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Media_Truth, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Renewable energy jobs around the globe are growing numbers faster than any other energy sector.

    [​IMG]

    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...ewable-energy-jobs-worldwide-solar-wind-trump

    Renewable energy jobs are growing around the globe as prices fall and interest in clean power rises. Worldwide, 9.8 million people are now employed in the renewable energy industry, including 3 million in the booming photovoltaic solar sector, up 12 percent from just a year ago, a new study shows.

    The United States has seen explosive growth in renewable energy jobs over the past three years, led by solar jobs (up 82 percent) and wind jobs (up 100 percent), according to new numbers released by the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).
     
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  2. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China is pumping out cheap solar panels for sure, I have some. Industrial wind and solar power plants in US are all government subsidized so employment numbers there are more of a burden on the economy and on tax payers than a boost.


    "On a total dollar basis, wind has received the greatest amount of federal subsidies. Solar is second. Wind and solar together get more than all other energy sources combined.

    However, based on production (subsidies per kWh of electricity produced), solar energy, has gotten over ten times the subsidies of all other forms of energy sources combined, including wind (see figure).

    [​IMG]Source: University of Texas


    Figure Caption: Subsidies for various energy sources normalized to total energy produced by each source for the years 2010, 2013, 2016 and projected for 2019. Data Source: University of Texas


    According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA) and the University of Texas, from 2010 through 2013, federal renewable energy subsidies increased by 54%, from $8.6 billion to $13.2 billion, despite the fact that total federal energy subsidies declined by 23%, from $38 billion to $29 billion.

    Subsidies then decreased dramatically from 2013 to 2016, because:

    • tax incentives expired for biofuels,
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...make-renewable-energy-so-costly/#1132a58128ce
     
  3. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    We'll agree to disagree on your numbers. I've seen the subsidies of the fossil fuel industry, and they are aplenty. In addition, there are subsidies, and there is the other politics. You can take every penny of subsidy ever put forth for wind and solar, and you would have a fraction of 1% of the expense for the $6 Trillion Iraqi Oil War. Oil tankers, from the middle East, are provided military escort ships. Nuclear has an entire Federal Governmental agency, the NRC. Just a few of many, many examples.

    Your hate for renewables, an industry which is improving energy independence in America, is bordering on an obsession.
     
  4. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought those figures looked odd too. Do you have any alternative statistics?
     
  5. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    This study was from a global viewpoint:

    https://cleantechnica.com/2016/02/25/the-myth-about-renewable-energy-subsidies/
    Studies by the International Energy Agency point out that global subsidies for fossil fuels outstrip those for renewable energy nearly 10-fold. The International Monetary Fund said if climate and environmental costs were included, then the fossil fuel subsides increased another 10 times to nearly $5 trillion a year.

    As for the US, the article also points out, that from a historical viewpoint, Oil and Gas have received $447 Billion in subsidies, while renewables have received $5.93 Billion, and that includes hydroelectricity.
     
  6. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    All federal subsidies for all industries should end. It's not the govts job to pick which businesses and industries should own the marketplace.
     
  7. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, but oil and gas have been colluding with government for literally 100 years (in 2018). Renewables have only been colluding for a few decades. What matters is now.

    In short, what I want to know is:

    Q. How much in subsidies was given to each source of energy per kWh in 2016 (or a similarly recent year)?

    Thanks.
     
  8. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know how many
    At the risk of repeating myself in here which I do over and over again, I live off grid in a solar power home. I'm all for solar and even wind in private application but I'm against corporate wind and solar which can't exist without tax payer dollars
     
  9. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Not any more!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...fossil-fuels-for-the-first-time-a7509251.html

    Solar energy is now cheaper than traditional fossil fuels.

    Solar and wind is now either the same price or cheaper than new fossil fuel capacity in more than 30 countries, according to a new report from the World Economic Forum. The influential foundaton has described the change as a "tipping point" that could make fighting climate change into a profitable form of business for energy companies.
     
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  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That largely depends on your access to fossil fuels. The WEF assumes an annual 3% increase in fossil fuel price to calculate solar grid parity
     
  11. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the statement implied that wind and solar aren't cost feasible, without subsidies.
     
  12. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can infer the moon is made out of purple cheese from my post if you so desire. Nothing I can do about that, but since I didn't say anything about wind or subsidies, you might as well coat the moon in almonds too.
     
  13. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Solar is significantly cheaper than traditional electricity, to the point that including interest on the loan, BEFORE Federal subsidies, my solar system will save me $70,000 over 30 years-assuming my electricity consumption and price remained static.

    New infrastructure needs to be installed, which generates a lot of short term job hours, but I wouldn't expect such job growth to continue for very long.
     
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  14. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't speaking about your post. Thanks for participating.
     
  15. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then don't quote my post if you are not speaking about my post.
     
  16. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Traditional electricity will get increasingly more expensive as standby power and a lot of it isn't easily turned on and off. Germany has experienced this problem, among others. Solar and wind will be a way to prolong the shelf-life of what we have in terms of capacity, but they are not magic bullets. If it is to warm, then energy consumption will increase drastically
     
  17. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Actually passive solar, for heating, is more effective than PVs. We built our home with Passive and lots of thermal mass. We have virtually ZERO heating bills in Colorado, a fairly cold climate, with 320 Sun-Days/Year.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your dodging the subsidized issue. It's cheap because it's subsidized which in reality makes it very expensive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  19. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I got no subsidies for the Passive Solar part of my home. You had mentioned that renewables aren't good for heating, and I proved you wrong, through first-hand experience. ZERO subsidies, ZERO heating bills!

    As far as subsidies for electrical generation, you obviously aren't up-to-date. The latest costs show renewables right there with the other most affordable forms of electrical generation, give-or-take, depending on the location in the country or world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  20. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Once again I'm all for home based solar and wind d and passive heat, what I'm against is subsidized corporate power plants. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

    "Although solar power is not economically competitive even with government subsidies, under President Obama’s proposed Clean Power Plan, now under appeal, the U.S. would substitute “increased electricity generation from new zero-emitting renewable energy sources (like wind and solar) for reduced generation from existing coal-fired power plants” to reach the president’s goal of a 32 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030.

    According to the Energy Information Agency (EIA), the levelized cost – defined as “the per-killowatthour cost (in real dollars) of building and operating a generating plant over an assumed financial life and duty cycle” – of electricity from a new solar photo-voltaic (SPV) plant in 2020 will be $74.20 per MWh, compared to $56.40 per MWh for power from a natural gas plant.

    The increased cost of solar power would then be passed on to consumers in the form of higher electricity bills."

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...mains-considerably-more-expensive-electricity
     
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  21. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    It's not hard to understand at all. Earlier you made some false statements that I corrected. As far as electrical power generation, your source is fairly close in price between wind and natural gas. Other sources show wind, as a more affordable option than Natural Gas, especially in some areas of the country/world. In areas of the country where renewables do cost more, most Utilities pass that price onto the consumer, who chooses the option to pay a little more, for knowing that he/she is using clean energy. Experts claim that by 2020, wind and solar will be more affordable than all other forms of electrical generation. At that point, you can choose to pay extra for "dirty" energy. How's that sound? Fair enough?

    https://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/13/solar-wind-power-prices-often-lower-fossil-fuel-power-prices/
     
  22. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you're confusing me with someone else on " false statements" about renewables.
    As for wind and solar in some cases in some countries being less expensive than fossil fuels ,maybe so maybe not but that is still dodging my first response in this thread which was that as of yet these sources of energy can't compete with fossil fuels without heavy government subsidies at least in America. In random countries without their own supply of fossil fuels it may be different and in those cases (if they exist) I say good for them. In the US it's a different case though. So far wind and solar can't compete with our fossil fuel energy on a level playing field. The only way it can compete at all is with huge government subsidies and corresponding penalties on fossil fuel that makes it artificially expensive, thus the calls for a carbon tax. If and or when solar and wind can compete with fossil fuel in the real world, if and or when the technology ripens to that point, I will be all for it and the economy will make a natural transition to a better product. My gut feeling on this is though that some new technology will come into being before that happens and make both fossil and renewables obsolete. Time will tell on that one.
     
  23. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I'm a plumber and work for a mechanical contractor, and the greatest hurdle for alternative energy has nothing to do with the ability to generate electricity, but the fact that refrigeration/HVAC hasn't had a major technological innovation in 50 years. Eventually that will happen, and when it does the electricity consumption of humanity will rapidly plummet.
     
  24. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    What about the Heat Pump? I did a lot of work with Ammonia Refrigeration, which is much more efficient than R410A or other refrigerants. Unfortunately, ammonia is considered a hazardous product, so usually you only find it used in Industrial applications.
     
  25. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of ammonia, but have never worked with it. Lots of options out there, and we just need to wait for one to catch on.
     

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