Federal judges' association calls emergency meeting after DOJ intervenes in case of Trump ally Roger

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by StillBlue, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is likely that the foreperson on Stone's jury WAS prejudiced against him. It is likely that the juror deceived the system.

    I think the system will be reviewing those matters soon, and it will be interesting to see how they play out.

    Stone's case was the fruit of Mueller's investigation, which was purely political in nature.
     
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  2. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member

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    Undermine? That is not the intention. Reign ot in, yes. Keep it honest, yes. Maintain our democracy and the rule of law, yes. The AG does not work for the president. He or she works for we the people.

    Barr should not be fixing things for Trump. He should not be investigating Trump's enemies without cause, and he should not be holding back on investigations, refusing to indict, and weighing in on sentencing for Trump's friends.
     
  3. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong, the AG works for the president, you folks spreading this false narrative that he doesn't won't make it true. I don't get how you can't understand that. If you're confused on the matter try reading the Constitution...
     
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  4. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So if 2001 say he should keep his job will you folks stop whining about it?
     
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  5. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Barr has written substantial tomes about his deeply held belief that a president is, indeed, above the law. This is Barr's defining mantra and he will cheat and lie and violate the Constitution and rule of law to uphold that belief. He is a creature made for Trump who holds identical beliefs. Trump supporters think this is just fine because Trump is their mouthpiece and bully that hates everyone that do - the "elites."

    The rest of us educated and thoughtful elites find this situation horrifying because it seeks to destroy the under pinnings of our democracy. It is an attack on our Constitution and our Judicial Branch. Trump is also conducting a direct attack on the Judiciary because he hates the laws that restrain him. He lusts for the power of Putin and other dictators. That's why he so reveres them and seeks to follow their example.

    Trump is a chain smoker in a dynamite factory.
     
  6. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Surely you can link to one of these tomes?
     
  7. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Your post has nothing to do with the subject.
     
  8. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Sure let me know when they do send such letters.
     
  9. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    Barr has done nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical.

    He’s ruffled a lot of feathers, but that’s not anywhere in the criminal code. Too bad, so sad.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  10. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  11. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Donor

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    Especially DOJ matters in DC and NYC and a few of the other biased offices.

    Barr gave the Biden/Ukraine files to the US Attorney in Pittsburgh where you might expect to get an honest Grand Jury assembled. How dare he !!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  12. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t disagree about re-examining things, but I do disagree about putting the prosecution in the judicial branch. Too much scope for stepping on the rights of the accused.
    What should be done is for Congress to make it expressly clear that the DOJ is independent of the White House and political influence. Maybe make some rules or guidelines about when an AG should appoint an independent counsel to look at things that might have a political aspect.

    Or require the Senate to grow some balls when the president abuses his office, but we’ve just seen that ain’t gonna happen.
     
  13. Paul7

    Paul7 Banned

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    Thomas Jefferson ordered the DOJ to begin an investigation.
     
  14. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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  15. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Deep State is like a cornered animal right now ... scared and dangerous.
     
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  16. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Obama sent his AG Holder to investigate the Fergesun case.. As part of that investigation Holder had closed door meetings with activists... He also investigated the police department.

    Dont forget ;)
     
  17. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you are saying that Obama had no business in launching a counter-intelligence investigation of candidate TRUMP ???

    John Carlin, was the Assistant Attorney General in charge of the DOJ National Security Division. The agency division that operates with no accountability or oversight.

    The National Security Division (NSD) inside the DOJ is where all of the collaboration regarding the Russia-Trump-dossier took place.
    The NSD is a sub-division within the DOJ similar to the Counterintelligence Division within the FBI.

    Carlin was the guy who attached the dossier to the first FISA application that was approved.

    According to your perspective, Obama should clearly be in prison right now.
     
  18. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    Yeah right, all those letters was just another conspiracy :)
     
  19. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Umm, no. Get yourself a real and factual source for news. ******owitless has become obscenely dishonest.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2017/dec/05/closer-look-alan-dershowitzs-comments-trump-and-pr/

    Dershowitz told PolitiFact that he had these examples in mind for each president he named: when Thomas Jefferson told his attorney general to prosecute Aaron Burr for treason, the time Lincoln sought to punish Civil War-era disloyal northerners, and the time Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered a military tribunal for Nazi spies who had infiltrated the United States mainland.

    Historians faulted the comparison with these three episodes, saying that Trump’s situation is fundamentally different and, at least in some ways, more problematic.

    "Burr may have been a rival, but he went out west and illegally engaged in privateering and allegedly treason," said Jed Shugerman, a legal historian at Fordham Law School. "I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that Jefferson was acting corruptly. He properly exercised his powers to stop an alleged mini-republic in the west."

    Joe Wheelan, author of Jefferson's Vendetta: The Pursuit of Aaron Burr and the Judiciary, agreed: "It would be a great error to cite the Jefferson-Burr case as a precedent for Trump’s actions."

    Meanwhile, the cases of Lincoln and Roosevelt stemmed from war, which sets them apart from the Trump example because of the commander in chief power under Article II.

    In fact, the Nazi saboteur case is different in another way: The defendants didn’t have the same constitutional rights as Americans.

    "They were treated as illegal enemy combatants in a time of war," said Michael Dobbs, author of Saboteurs: The Nazi Raid on America. "Their position is more analogous to post-9/11 terrorists sent to Guantanamo."

    Meanwhile, historians added that these precedents are tainted.

    David O. Stewart, author of American Emperor: Aaron Burr's Challenge to Jefferson's America, said that the prosecution, which led to an acquittal, was "bungled" and is "generally considered one of Jefferson’s larger missteps."

    As for the saboteur case, Roosevelt acted in ways that, in retrospect, are seen by many as problematic. He had direct correspondence with Francis Biddle, the attorney general; he made clear that he thought the accused deserved the death penalty; and he had informal contacts with Felix Frankfurter, one of the Supreme Court justices that ended up hearing the case, Dobbs said.

    The Nazi saboteur case would be "a terrible precedent" to use in justifying proper presidential behavior, said Louis Fisher, author of Nazi Saboteurs on Trial: A Military Tribunal and American Law.

    That said, there’s one thing experts agree on: If Special Counsel Robert Mueller attempts to prove obstruction of justice, he has his work cut out for him.

    "Anyone who speaks with utter confidence about the legality (of what Trump did) is probably stretching it, because all of this is relatively unprecedented," Shugerman said. "It boils down to proving corrupt intent. Anyone who says that’s easy has a case of hubris."
     
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  20. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Well there are over 114k current employees of the DOJ that haven’t signed a letter. They all seem to think he’s doing a fine job. I’ll take their word over a handful of folks that don’t even work there now
     
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  21. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    But Obama good. Orangeman bad.
     
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  22. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    The AG is NOT the president's attorney. When they have a conflict of interest, they've historically recused themselves. Even Jefferson "Barney Fife" Sessions recused himself appropriately.
     
  23. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Explain how this makes "Orange man GOOD!" and "Brown man BAD!".
     
  24. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Donor

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    A better example of mixed intentions is the Clement Vallandigham situation. A political opponent that crossed the line in terms of loyalty to the Constitution.

    Vallandigham’s contentious tenure in the House of Representatives between 1858 and 1863, during which time he spoke out against Abraham Lincoln, led the anti-Civil War “Copperhead” faction, advocated for states’ rights on the issue of slavery, made countless supportive overtures to the Confederacy, and even attempted to form his own before the war ended.

    In the last years of the war, Vallandigham met with a Confederate representative in an attempt to form a “Northwest Confederacy” that would see Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, and Illinois overthrow their governments and secede from the Union. However, the plan failed, Vallandigham withdrew from politics, and went back to Ohio.

    Lincoln walked a fine line with him and stopped some of his publications on the grounds that he was inciting violence.
     
  25. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think the DoJ has recommended any specific time with it's "revised recommendation." Just that the former sentencing recommendation was too harsh and should be less. Not sure it matters much. I think most people expect him to start pardoning everyone shortly anyhow...Stone, Manafort, Flynn. His attacks on the Judiciary are superfluous and only adding to his problems. We may be getting close to 25th amendment action.
     

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