Feminist activist in Iran sentenced to 24 years in prison for removing hijab.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by JessCurious, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I consider polls of public opinion in Iran as reliable as the methodology they employ. They are no less reliable being conducted in Iran than if conducted in say the United States. Those who don't understand how that could be, simply don't understand Iran. In Iran, as long as you aren't organizing with someone to start a movement that would threaten the regime, you can say pretty much anything you want. As such, the Iranian people are some of the most opinionated people you will ever meet. And those opinions, expressed in often colorful language, is quite regularly damning of the 'regime', 'the government' and any number of political issues and personalities. Just don't organize and create affiliations with groups the regime doesn't approve; otherwise, no one in the regime cares what any person is yapping about! They are actually very smart that way; they let the public let off steam comfortably while trying to make sure nothing more dangerous comes from it.
    No, which is my point: the law on the issue in the US reflects prevailing standards. There will be, of course, some who prefer things differently. It only becomes a problem when the latter are a large enough number, such as is the case in Iran.

    A whole list of dos and don'ts which young people ignore just like they flout the hijab rules in many ways as well. So the regime's "morality police" sometimes visits hairstylists based on this excuse, although usually its a scam to extort money from them. That is, incidentally, also what the hijab rules mean for many of these folks in Iran as well: a very lucrative source of income from wedding halls, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. The "morality police" is a mafia type group: they go to these businesses to extort money. If they get paid, they are left alone. If not, they have to run through the hoops in Iran's judicial system, which also has its own mafia gang which resolve cases not on merit, but who pays the most.
    https://www.rferl.org/a/Iran_Unveils_Approved_Haircuts/2092046.html
    Iran Unveils Approved Hairstyles
    No, I said "right now) because I was looking back in the past, when whether compulsory or not, head scarfs were pretty much the norm in the West as well. In the US, I believe they gradually began to fade after the "roaring 20s" (1920s) although it wasn't until the 1960s when they were no longer prominent at all.
    Yes, technically, the head scarf is supposed to cover a woman's hair, but in Iran, Iranian girls have figured out ways to wear it that shows the hair as much as if they were not wearing one!
    The pictures below are quite typical, but also what poorer conservative folks complain about when they say "Tehran's streets have turned into a fashion show."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Unless something else emerges in place of the institution of marriage and family, including for rearing children, its demise is not a hopeful sign of things to come. But that doesn't mean the factors contributing or causing that demise are necessarily bad things. In any case, you can never turn the clock back: the issue is how to best handle the problem looking ahead without ignoring or neglecting it.
     
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  2. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    Exactly! Imprisoned for the wrong reasons, but let's say Karma.
     
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  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was just checking to see if you meant that, people assume that opinion polls in Iran ARE unreliable, not "WOULD BE" unreliable. It seems that is what you meant. Again, "WOULD BE" implied that polls don't happen in Iran currently.

    Well this is a critical point of distinction is it not? In the US, the law against public nudity is accepted because it "reflects prevailing standards" while in Iran the law which forces head cover is NOT accepted because "a large enough number" would "prefer things differently."

    Wedding halls?

    Sure, but it wasn't the norm because it was compulsory was it! It was a cultural/fashion thing which happened absent of government. Head covering would never have been a thing in the Muslim world if not for government forcing it, right?

    If the girls in those pictures are within the law, then I cannot see the point in even HAVING the law! What are they even covering up? Just the back of their heads!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Ya , right...translated correctly : """those Evil Women, we gave them rights and they got UPPITY and wanted equality , and ruined the world ... the dirty Bssss…"""
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    What I actually meant were places that hold wedding parties: hotels, large restaurants, mansions hired for this purpose, etc

    I didn't say that was why it was the norm. But in many places various clothing that didn't fit the prevailing standards -- standards more strict than now -- would have exposed someone to prosecution for violating "public decency" statutes and ordinance under state and municipal laws and regulations.
    They are very typical of what you will find on the streets in North Tehran in particular, as well as the more affluent parts in other major cities. It is not for nothing that while Iran ranks only 19th in terms of population, it ranks 7th in the world in cosmetic purchases, among the top 10 in plastic surgery etc. Which is also why you have less affluent groups aligned with the conservatives in Iran complaining about the situation on the one hand, while many of the actual people you see in such pictures obviously prefer not to have to deal with any such restrictions at all. For the regime, the happy medium is to tolerate this (except in well publicized crackdowns that happen usually in the summer for a few weeks), while taking flack from its most devoted constituencies. For the regime, while not ideal (except for those many among them who have mistresses that would look like the women in those pictures), it is still better than letting women go in public with short skirts, see through clothing, bikinis at the beach, etc.

    https://www.pinterest.com/tmd972/dress-like-an-iranian-woman/
     
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  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Which seems to indicate you don't know many feminists or you don't know what is radical or not radical...


    …..women wanting the same rights as men is NOT radical even if some her believe that to be true...


    it would be funny to find out what you think is "radical"..


    feminism
    noun
    fem·i·nism | \ ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm \
    Definition of feminism


    1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
    2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  7. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Well, they didn't ruin the whole world yet, just the liberal democracies. Women are not evil, they've just been led astray by propaganda which suggests that women and men are equal ignoring the fact that men and women have different capabilities and different motivations. Science confirms this again and again in may different ways. But Progressives never let science get in the way of their misguided ideologies.

    And the real irony is that women are unhappier because of it. In the 1970's, women were happier than men. Now men are happier than women. (Just google "women unhappier" for many discussions about this.)

    Good job!
     
  8. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    I guess we should wish the Shia Muslims in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Bahrain, and Pakistan well on their national holiday (Ashura, the tenth day of the first month of the Islamic calendar)

    [​IMG]
    Babies Covered in Blood as Muslims Use Knives to Slice Open Their Heads During Ashura Festival (VIDEOS)

    [​IMG]

    They mark Husayn’s death at the Battle of Karbala, fought between Husayn and Yazid I on October 10 680AD to determine who should succeed the prophet as the leader of Islam. Yazid is considered a tyrant by some Muslims, and Husayn’s death is considered by the Shia community to be a symbol of humanity’s struggle against injustice, tyranny, and oppression.

    Too bad the Supreme Leader & regime in Iran is guided by Shia Islam in their wielding of power, it sort of complicates international progress...
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Very surprised you would want to post pictures of things which are both banned in Iran (and by Shia clerics in other countries where these pictures seem to have been taken) and which have nothing to do with the real issues in Iran either. How is this relevant or helpful in anything?
     
  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    In the meantime, this report posted a few hours ago is a bit more relevant. It shows the kind of faces which are actually adversely affected by the policies behind the war being waged on Iran.
     
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  11. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    So true. Promoting mass genocide of Native Americans and slavery as many of them did do not constitute fine, shining examples of moral Christianity and goodness.
     
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  12. JessCurious

    JessCurious Well-Known Member

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    My father served in the US Army during World War II and saw the death camps in Germany. I've met Holocaust survivors and
    saw the tattoos on their arms. In my view, those who deny the Holocaust are either extremely ignorant or extremely dishonest.
    In the case of the Iranian government I suspect its the latter rather than the former. Iran will never be fully accepted as part of
    the Western, progressive, World as long it continues to deny a provable historical truth. Again, I respect the honesty of your answer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  13. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    During this year’s Ashura, a spokesperson for the Iranian Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Sistani issued a statement that avoided clarifying his position on the practice. He said that the leader would not get involved in “such a fruitless debate,” blameable on “those who ignite it every year with the purpose of defeating the opposing party”.

    How is selectively viewing (with rose colored lenses) only the positive & heartwarming aspect of Iran of merit; when the objectively harsh reality of Iranian leadership is staring us in the face?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Funny how on another thread righties got all upset over lefties engaging in business boycotts. Yet, they applaud government boycotting of an entire nation like Iran.

    These righties sure love to engage in double standards.
     
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  15. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Iran has denied that the Holocaust took place? Not so:

    https://tinyurl.com/yy6uuee6
     
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    "" suggests that women and men are equal ignoring the fact that men and women have different capabilities and different motivations""


    So you think that rights should be allotted based on """ different capabilities and different motivations""" ??????


    I don't. I believe every American citizen should have the same rights as other American citizens.
     
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  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of people who are both extremely ignorant and extremely dishonest when it comes to host of people around the world, including the people of Iran, not just what might have happened to them in the past, but what is being done to its most vulnerable communities today. Nor am I aware of anyone in Iran, even those who allegedly deny the Holocaust, questioning the things your father has seen or what you mention hearing about from Holocaust survivors.

    Incidentally, when I went to high school in the US (which was the 1980s), we did have a Holocaust survivor come and talk about the Holocaust to our class. But you have to excuse some people in Iran who don't have the same exposure, who might really not know much about the Holocaust, except what they might have been exposed to briefly in school or through movies. They will, nonetheless, likely know about other things you don't know much about. Including how the current efforts to strangulate and cripple Iran are mostly making life a lot more difficult for Iran's most vulnerable communities, including the kids in the video I posted earlier.
     
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The practice is banned in Iran. Sistani might be of Iranian birth, but is the leader of the Iraqi Shias and is certainly not part of "Iran's leadership". (If anything, he keeps a distance from Iran's leadership and is part of a clerical school the US prefers, namely the ones who believe clergy should not get directly involved in politics).

    Not that I would have any brief for our clerics or leadership, but this is not a meritorious issue as it really doesn't have anything to do with what is going on Iran. In Iran, even the practice of having loudspeakers disturb people's quiet during Ashura has been banned, never mind what you have posted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Talking about Ashura, it is probably the most important religious holiday for the Shia and while any practice that causes any actual physical harm is banned by both religious edicts as well as by law in Iran, I don't want to leave an impression that Ashura is somehow not commemorated in Iran. It certainly is and it draws huge crowds. Even non-religious Iranians participate in many of these ceremonies, which include handing out plates of cooked Persian dishes, fruits and nuts, as well as various passion plays and marchers flogging themselves with instruments that don't actually cause any pain or harm but which are intended to show their devotion and mourning for events relating to the martyrdom of a shia saint etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    Really, all I wanted to know was whether this story was true, mostly true or untrue. She is also accused of other charges apart from wearing the hijab - which may total 24 years. Is there any news of this woman at all in Iran, or only in the western media?
     
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  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I can check what I can find in the Iranian media, but some points to understand about Iran's legal system and the applicable laws when reading (more carefully or faithfully than you have) the version by Radio Free Europe that I provided to you:
    1- Under Iranian law, until a 'final verdict' is issued against anyone, the identity of the accused cannot be revealed as part of the presumption of innocence. Hence, stories about trials in Iran, unless the accused himself or herself openly divulges his/her identity, will merely have the person's initials instead of their name.
    2- Her case has not resulted in a final verdict. The 'trial level' conviction in Iran is automatically subject to review on appeal and before that appeal (which almost invariably shortens such sentences but usually doesn't result in a reversal) renders the final verdict, it is unlikely that her actual name will be identified.
    3- According to the report I provided to you, her initial sentence is 15 years and not more. (None of the sentences carry a higher punishment and they would be running concurrently, unless specified otherwise). None of those sentences is about not wearing the hijab, which in no way carries any such sentence. Participating in anti-hijab protest against the regime, while not wearing the hijab, is not the same as being charged under Iran's modesty laws for not wearing the Hijab.
    4- Like some other legal systems, in Iran, if you are a repeat offender and have committed other crimes, that can be considered in aggravation of your sentence. The report from the US source indicated she has other convictions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  22. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    When I peruse the pro-Iranian, defensive & legitimizing posts in this thread it strikes me that it is about what I would expect from a political liaison of the Iranian regime... Though denied officially & on TV the rallying cry 'Death to America' 'Death to Israel' 'America - the great Satan' is a reality to consider. Examples of official down playing / explaining away for PR purposes...

    On March 21, 2015, Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei backed and shouted the phrase 'Death to America' while addressing a public gathering in Iran, during the holiday of Nowruz, the Persian New Year.[20][21][22] In a statement published on his website on November 3, 2015, Khamenei said: "It goes without saying that the slogan does not mean death to the American nation; this slogan means death to the U.S.'s policies, death to arrogance."[23][24]

    On June 23, 2017, during Quds Day, protestors chanted “Death to America” and “Death to Israel”.[25] On April 25, 2018, Iran announces that the “Death to America” emoji would be included in the messaging app.[26] On May 9, 2018, an American flag was burned in the Iranian Parliament amidst chants of 'Death to America' after President Donald Trump withdrew from the nuclear deal with Iran.[27] On November 4, 2018, Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the religious group Nation of Islam, led a “Death to America” chant during a solidarity trip to Iran, ahead of sanctions expected to be imposed by the Trump administration.[28][29]


    Lets call a spade a spade while we opine on the wondrous potential of a genuflective Iran being embraced with the internationl community...
     
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  23. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why are you dodging my question?
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I am disappointed reading the first lines in your message. From being worried about being "contrarian", you have descended to hurling accusations. I assume you must really believe it or else I just don't get your point. On the latter assumption, let me say this:

    I do not like the case against Iran or its regime be made from falsehoods. Otherwise, I have already mentioned all the 'stories' about the regime, whether denied by it or not, which I find credible. And which provide a much more valid excuse to go after the 'regime' than stories these false stories. For me, they include stories such as the following:

    1- Alleged Iranian role in the attacks on the tankers recently in the Persian Gulf, which Iran denied but I found credible.
    2- Alleged Iranian role in what is referred to as the Karbala Headquarters Compound Attack, resulting in the death of 5 US servicemen, which Iran has not admitted but I find credible.
    3- Iran's role in the bombing of the US Marine Compound in Lebanon in 1983, resulting in the death of 243 US servicemen.

    And many other such things from nearly 40 years of hostile relations between Iran and the US. Each of them, given half of the attention nonsense about Iran gets, would probably work better to incite any hostile acts against it. If that is the intention.

    If that is not the intention, but rather to somehow cause Iranians to rise up against the regime, I am not sure how false propaganda on issues with no traction is going to help? The one issue with any traction in Iran is the one I actually posted, condemning the regime, namely a tragic story about an Iranian woman who self-immolated herself and died as a result of her injuries, protesting charges against her arising from the ban on female football fans. I have also blasted the regime for its biggest real sin, namely its corruption.

    The Iranian regime, whatever its nature, isn't going away by false stories about it and I don't get why those should be the cornerstone of the campaign against it. Especially in an American forum where not many Iranians would be visiting anyway.

    I just don't get the tactics? Really don't. It makes no real sense to me.
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What's the point in me replying when you're only going to PATHETICALLY report me when you decide that a reply is too difficult? :roflol:
     

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