fighter jets will be given to Ukraine

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Gateman_Wen, Feb 27, 2022.

  1. Gateman_Wen

    Gateman_Wen Well-Known Member

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  2. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  3. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They’ve pilots.
     
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  4. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is wonderful news albeit, as you say, coming in a bit late in the game. While Ukraine is outmatched in all areas-- except those pertaining to SPIRIT-- by Russia, yet fighter aircraft (as you may know) is where the deficit, is starkest. Russia has a 15 to 1 advantage (1511, to 98 ), so any help, in this area, should be appreciated; being pinned beneath an endless bombing attack, because the skies have been completely ceded to one's enemy, is a dark place to find oneself (which is why those Stinger missiles were urgently needed).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  5. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The very short article, relates that this was the specific REQUEST, by Ukraine, for planes their pilots know how to fly. Here you go:
    [SNIP]
    Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has told the EU "they need the kind of fighting jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate... some member states have these kinds of planes," Borrell said.
     
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  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    It is not just the fighters, pilots, and weapons. It is the entire infrastructure attached to them including spare parts, training, and for that matter the tactical doctrine that dictates their use.
     
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  7. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to be talking about IDEALS, in the creation of a nation's (ideally) full military. In the current circumstance, however, Ukraine is relying, on part, for its defense, on citizens making their own Molotov cocktails, and is handing out AK- 47s, to even the elderly and children, who want them.

    In war, pragmatics take precedence over ideals.

    Or, in the eloquent way it was put, by Donald Rumsfeld, you go to war with the army you have, not the army that you wish you had.

    Adding more aircraft, which Ukranian pilots can fly, is definitely a big boost, for the slingshot of this David.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If nothing else, it's a signal to Russia that they had better give up or lose a lot more men and hardware.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  9. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    I think there is something else too. It’s not just that they have some fighters, but they know when to use them too. Numbers are important but so too are when to use them. The link to NATOs satellites and the passing of intelligence will help give them a small edge when it comes to shooting things down. Know when to deploy the fighters and where via better intelligence.
     
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  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You do know that Ukraine already had a professional military when the Russians invaded?
     
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  11. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    not sure what kind jet are those, training jet? cause F16 etc take months if not years to operate properly. you can't just put a newbie on a jet expect him to learn within a week. its jet not a toyota highlander.
    the only thing i can think is Mig29 given to existing ukraine air force pilot, they know how to flew those. but NATO dont have many mig29, if at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  12. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which was at par with Russia's??

    They had, as I've already noted, in this new thread, 98 fighter aircraft, versus over 1500, for Russia. So your point is that, if they had not been better prepared, on their own, for this invasion, by their larger neighbor, then they don't deserve any help??
    The corollary to that view, of course, would be that the only nations, worthy of military assistance, are the ones who don't need any.



    For the record, how do you describe what is currently underway, in Ukraine, between itself and Russia; and should it be regarded by any outside nations, as having import, with future ramifications, potentially, for themselves?
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You're completely making up something I never said nor gave the least bit of indication of.
     
  14. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By quoting , for you, from the OP article, I was not volunteering to be your research flunky. The Ukranian foreign minister, has stated that "some member states (of the EU) have these kinds of planes."

    This is countered by some person, online, calling themself s002wjh, saying that he thinks the foreign minister is incorrect.
    Should I believe you-- or that s002wjh, just doesn't know as much as he thinks, he does?

    I would point out, that no one but
    you, said anything about F-16s, but I'm sure that would be followed by more of your assertions, of dubious credibility. So I'm going to leave it to you, to figure out the solution to the conundrum, which I think you are one, of very few, to see.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  15. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then I mistook, whatever you'd intended to imply by:
    Maybe, in that case, you could explain to me, how your words had been meant to apply, to my post?


    Also, your answers to my basic questions, at the end of my prior reply-- which you neglected to address-- would be helpful, in my avoiding further misinterpretations:

     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Just that you cannot simply create a viable air force by flooding a nation with planes and weapons. And just because Ukrainian pilots know how to fly them is not remotely enough.

    Ever read the training syllabus for U.S. fighter pilots? When a fighter pilot is brought into training he knows how to fly his fighter and use its weapons. But that is ONLY THE FIRST level of their training. They are not considered a combat capable fighter pilot at that point.

    In my opinion the best option would be to provide the Ukrainians with proven training aircraft which have the capability of carrying light armaments. Trainers are by their nature easier to learn how to operate (including the weapons) and use them primarily to support ground forces.

    Hope that helps.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a bunch of idiots, dragging us into WWIII. It's like the only raison etre' they have is to hate Russia.

    Well, what's one to expect when this guy below, was their star performer at the opening of the Cern Tunnel.




    .When Satan Reigns
    ..[​IMG]
    Whatever's false they'll say it's true
    and throw the lies back onto you.

    And what is right they'll say it's wrong.

    Then woe to all, it won't be long.

    When everyone will wear a frown.

    For what is 'up', they'll call it 'down'.

    Then try to make the day a night

    so dark can reign, without the light.
    - Jeannette
     
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  18. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I suppose they'll be armed with that which they're already familiar and have requested.
     
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  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that reason enough.
     
  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    wth are you talking about. like said, ukraine been a former member of soviet only know how to fly mig29 etc. so which EU has these plane? there is alot false news on ukraine-russia war, this seem like false one as well.
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WWIII? Nah. Just one old man's folly.
     
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  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    According to Wikipedia Poland had 15 Mig-29s and Bulgaria 12. The U.S. at one point bought 21 of them.

    So all told it shouldn't be that big a problem to gather a few dozen Fulcrums for the Ukrainians to use.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  23. Same Issues

    Same Issues Well-Known Member

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    Where does all this hardware go at this point, kind of late as Kiev and the eastern front are not easily accessible if at all and that gets worse every hour? Lviv or Odessa maybe? Where will these planes fly out of? All of this hardware and financial aid promises at this point seem just token.
     
  24. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    It's lunacy.

    Maybe Russia or Belarus will line up 'purely defensive' (the NATO catch words) anti-aircraft missiles and shoot them down.

    I mean people, WTF do you think is going to happen?

    Stupidity run amuck.

    I seem to recall a country the West told us was killing their own people..AKA Syria...and the West went so far as arming terrorists to try to topple it.

    Ukraine actually has been killing their own people for 8 friggin years and you people want to send weapons to the *******s that have been doing the killing.

    Like I said, lunacy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  25. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    That very rarely matters, I'm afraid. (smh)
     

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