fighter jets will be given to Ukraine

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Gateman_Wen, Feb 27, 2022.

  1. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    are those well maintained? how old is it? most those plane where taken apart for study or used as training, and has 80s avionic/radar, it wasn't meant for front line fighter jet. does ukraine still have airport for some these plane to land on. how is the pilot gonna fly it to ukraine and back under russia air force killzone. i just dont think its gonna happen. this is not some stinger we can just put on a truck and shipped to ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ukraine has them in active service, so presumably they could fix them up.
     
  3. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    like i said, russia currently have air dominance over ukraine, even by some miracle, ukraine got some of these, its equipped with 80s avionics/radar. they can't used it if they dont have runway for it to land/maintain. most ukraine mig29 already been destroyed, and those are the newer version. the only option ukraine have is guerrilla warfare right now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, if people are serious about giving Ukraine fighters, then I have to trust that they undersand the situation and are planning around it.
     
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  5. Same Issues

    Same Issues Well-Known Member

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    Like I have stated, most of the aid and military at this point seems token. Where is it going to go, Lviv or Odessa? Anywhere arms are needed are active war zones and each hour its going to be harder and harder to get arms to where they are needed. We stated we will give however many billion in aid to Ukraine, wtf are they going to do with that at this point?! Its token support. Would have made a difference a month ago.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have faith in Ukrainian and NATO military leadership.
     
  7. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, then, unless I am meant to infer from that, your belief that these planes will be of no use to the Ukranians, my response about practicality versus ideals, and about fighting with the army you have-- not the one you might wish you had, all seems applicable. The aim is not to "create a viable air force," however you want to define that; it is to provide Ukraine with equipment, that will aid in its defense. I thought that was clearly apparent, to all. So, I still fail to see your comment's point, unless it was only that "this is not an ideal situation."

    Surely you are not suggesting the conducting of extended training of Ukranian pilots, before they take up, whichever planes they can get, which are at least serviceable, with just the training the pilots already have?

    Well thanks, but I had not been pondering the question of which specific planes, these were. Ukraine's foreign minister said that their pilots could fly planes, possessed by some EU member states; the EU is sending fighter jets: presumably those same ones. This, more than most things, is going to be useful, for Ukraine. That was my opinion.

    Your comment about the "training aircraft," then, would seem to have been misdirected towards me, instead of someone clearly wondering about the specifics of the planes provided, such as @s002wjh :

    -- though he had also, as you can see, already considered the training jet idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  8. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    You, perhaps, have mistaken me for an aviations expert, which I am not. But I see no reason to consider this, "fake news." To the contrary, the notion that something like this is a farce, is bizarrely unbelievable. That is, unless one believes that every bit of news coverage, for the entire world, is being tightly controlled, censored, and even created, by a small cabal of puppet masters-- you know, like the Russian government does. I have a feeling, that country is where you may call home.

    Not being in the know, as far as the full inventory of aircraft, in any country's inventory, I can only reply with common sense, to your claim that, as a former Soviet Block country, Ukranian pilots can only fly Soviet (Russian) fighter planes. What seems possibly a problematic part of that logic, is that the Soviet Union disintegrated, 3 decades ago. Are you suggesting that it is not possible the Ukranians could have added a single plane, in all that time, other than a Russian one (or just that all their pilots, go back to the Soviet age)? Perhaps that is true (about the planes), but it doesn't, preclude their being able to fly these "trainer jets," that even you, yourself, mentioned in one of your 1st posts. For a more in-depth examination of this issue, I can only refer you to @Dayton3 , whom I have, already, pointed in your direction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    This kind of action of NATO nations and other nations is awash in all sorts of dangers of serious escalation. For example what happens if several dozen combat aircraft are gathered at a Bulgarian base in preparation for being flown (armed) to Ukraine.? The Russians could have serious justification in lobbing missiles at the base in Bulgaria in order to destroy the fighters before they can be sent to Ukraine.

    But justified militarily or not, Bulgaria is a NATO nation now. Such an attack would at the least provoke retaliation against Russia by NATO.
     
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  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    My point is that while I do think the combat aircraft would be useful to the Ukrainians in their efforts against the Russians, I'm not sure whether that usefulness outweighs the risks of escalating the tensions between Russia and NATO.

    To me, if NATO nations really want to get involved in this war they should simply declare a No Fly zone over all of Ukraine and enforce it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  11. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, Bill, I think we ALL remember the claims about Syria-- as well as remember seeing the victims of these attacks, the dead and the still living, on numerous news agencies,' news reports. This was pretty well documented; and extremely well so, in comparison to, so-called, "genocide," in Ukraine.

    I have seen news reports from the region where these events are supposed to be occurring. I can remember one reporter, seeing no such signs, of anything of the sort, saying that genocides, are not the sort of thing, "that can be hidden."


    So these continued assertions of a thing, which the 3-dimensional world of reality, shows demonstrably to be a fiction, can only be described, or explained, as...
    lunacy-- like you said.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Best to let the Russians escalate first if it's ever going to happen..
     
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  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Now that's a clearly- stated opinion. Thanks.

    What do you see as those risks (of just providing more weaponry)? We have been doing this already, obviously, including weapons, like Stinger missiles, which have already brought down Russian planes. You believe, for some reason, that there is an invisible line, that designates, as far as military arms, aircraft, as being beyond the limits of what is "acceptable?"

    And what is Putin going to do, declare war on all of Europe (when he's struggling a little, just with Ukraine)?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What they should have done was to stop the neo Nazi genocide of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk which has been going on for 8 years, and pressured Zalensky to adhere to the Minsk II agreement. That wasn't in Washington's interest though. War was!

    Peace loving Zalensky has now released the criminals from jail and given them guns - which of course they'll turn on citizens. But isn't that our policy of chaos, chaos and more chaos? Russia in the meantime opened a highway to allow the civilians in Kiev to leave.

    The city of Mariopol though, who are considered 'untermenchens' and not racially pure Aryans like those of Lviv, has been mined by the neo Nazi armies so that none of the inhabitants can leave.


    [​IMG]
    Fight and strife is my name
    and chaos is my game.


    I gear them all to kill and maim
    and then covertly flip the blame
    to you.

    So even though I am insane,
    and only think of my own gain,


    there is no shame.
    It's in your name
    and there's nothing you can do.
    - Jeannette
     
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You people see Nazis constantly.

    That's lazy thinking.
     
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  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Olgino Gang is working overtime now :lol: It won't help. Russia has already lost.

    Слава Україні!
     
  18. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PLenty of Mig29 in other countries. They could import some from plenty of places.
     
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  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right now the big battle is going on in Kharkov the 2nd largest city in Ukraine, which I believe is part of the Donbass area. Since the people are Russian Ukrainians, it was controlled by neo Nazi militaries such as Azov and Aidar. I know that Zalensky was heavily arming the city in preparations for war, right before the Ukrainians began their genocidal attacks on the civilians of Donetsk.

    Here is todays news and videos of what's going on. As expected, civilians are being used as human shields.

    https://southfront.org/battle-for-k...ussian-attack-bombers-came-to-support-videos/
     
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A war based on lies and damned lies is doomed to fail, Jenny. Once again, you demonstrate the truth behind the quote that "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." The Russian army is attacking Ukrainian cities and killing civilians, killing women and children, on the basis of utter rubbish about "Neo Nazis" and "genocide."

    This is the Holocaust of our generation.
     
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  21. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    which countries are those? NATO have very few mig29, and its mostly outdated. also, how the heck you gonna import the plane into ukraine while war is going on right now. that just wishful thinking.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't blame just me, blame Israel. The Ambassador was worried about the 10 thousand Jews that are still in Ukraine.

    Well if you say so Durandal, then it must be true. I mean who can doubt your credibility, after all you've proven it over and over again - not.



    The Empire Of Lies
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I'm singing now a wondrous song

    To tell the world that right is wrong

    and what you thought was naught before
    was just a lie that you had bought.

    from us. - Jeannette
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How was your trip to the ATM? Long line?
     
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  24. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1- Mig 29 is one of the russian most available model. They sold them to plenty of countries around the world. Also Russi doesn't control the western part of Ukraine. They can be flown from around the world to europe, then through Poland or Roumania. Did you skip geography at school?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    How is it there are Nazis in Ukraine given the Ukrainian leader is a Jew?
     
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