Finally a president that is a man of his word and action.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea ... well NOw we're behind Dozens of Country ... soon Trump will only be able to travel to our Enemies, because our Allies can't stand his worthless ass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  2. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure I do. That doesn’t make California any better.

    It’s a nonsensical hypothetical scenario anyway so...
     
  4. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks
     
  5. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No thanks needed, you earned it ... now ware it proudly
     
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  6. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    Trump signed the same waiver that Clinton, Bush, and Obama signed to delay the embassy move pending a more opportune transition period (which now will be MUCH more difficult to achieve and over which we no longer have ANY leverage or control).

    This was purely a political statement to fulfill campaign promises to wealthy donors, superficially symbolic, the only foreseeable outcome being further agitation of an extremely volatile situation. . . . Burning a copy of the Quran would have had the same useless yet incendiary effect.

    . . . . But apparently the obvious futility of this move is not recognizable to Trump supporters, overshadowed by their blind devotion.

    Diplomacy is NOT synonymous to mendacity. . . . It is avoiding provocative confrontations that serve NO useful purpose.
     
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course we recognize that there is hostility. But you seem to ignore that there was irrational hostility anyway, that acting in appeasement under the threat of their anger has bought us nothing whatsoever in the past- except more hostility.
    IF there is nothing to be gained by folding and capitulation, then it is time to call the bluff- or be known as a weaklings that can always be relied on to back down.

    I realize that the left always thinks that this not "diplomacy", while much of the right sees not doing it as stupidity. I see it as necessary- life experience has taught me that if you are not willing to back up what you say and stand for what is right, you are nothing. Nobody will actually respect you, they will screw around with you indefinitely- and you will be powerless.

    It's not futile at all either. It's a way of making it clear that the game has changed, that we are no longer unwilling to back up our own promises. Of course they don't like it- they have been getting away with "diplomacy" by threat and intimidation of years, dealing with people who lack backbone. New game. We'll see how it plays out.

    I'm willing to say that aside from some local skirmish and demonstrations and more threats- nothing will happen, except ... Now, the Israelis, the Palestinians and all the rest know that the rules have changed, and they can't control us with threats. At sometime in the game, you have to call instead of folding out of fear.. That's where we are.
     
  8. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The United States benefits because the world now knows we have integrity again, to do what our leaders promise to do. This isn't just about Jerusalem, its about N. Korea, Mexico, Iran, ISIS, and a slew of other issues. Trump does what he said he was going to do. When a chemical attack was perpetrated in Syria, Trump bombed them, he didn't draw a 'red line'. Folks around the world should be going back over Trump's campaign speeches, or they might be for some rude awakenings...
     
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  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does Trump even care if he upsets the Establishment applecart? No.....and neither do I.
     
  10. PT78

    PT78 Banned

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    Please explain to us EXACTLY how this will help America?

    The government has already issued a warning to Americans abroad about possible violence against them because of this.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...izens-in-wake-of-jerusalem-decision-1.3318185

    So American lives are now much more at stake then they were before the announcement.

    And virtually every government in the world is condemning the move.

    So, I ask you again, how EXACTLY does this help America?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  11. Sampson Simpon

    Sampson Simpon Active Member

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    Are you just joking? Or trolling? YOu have to be, you can't make a comment this dumb. Trump is as big of a snake as there can be. His entire wealth is based on first off, getting money from daddy, scamming people, not paying people, scamming the system with bankruptcy, and being a reality TV star. Can you be any more of a snake claiming that you will be banging a girl who is 13 in the future, or how about claiming he would be banging Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter, or talking sexually about Ivankas underage kids, or admitting sexual assault and grabbing women by the bleep, or walking in on beauty contestants as they were changing, and lying constantly, for no reason other than to pander to idiot supporters of his.

    I mean, you people just post this nonsense on purpose, don't you?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  12. Sampson Simpon

    Sampson Simpon Active Member

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    California has 6th largest Economy in the world, you really want to lost all the revenue to pay for your war mongering?
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Trump has made it crystal clear that he has absolutely no interest in ending the aggression against Palestine.

    He's backed the ethnic cleansing program Israel is carrying out - one of the root causes of tension in the ME as well as being a major humanitarian crime and totally counter to the values of democracy and rule of law that America likes to proclaim.

    And, now he's given away one of the few bargaining chips FOR FREE!!!

    He's also backed away from the idea of a two state solution without proposing any other resolution.

    This is as bad as Trump's give away to China, including backing away from south east Asia and allowing China's Pacific trade alliance to proceed without us.. Plus, there is Trump+Russia.

    Trump couldn't be more anti-American if he tried.

    The "art of the deal"??? He doesn't even bother to HAVE a deal. He just gives it away.
     
  14. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well- Just possibly, other nations might begin to believe that our word actually means something; that we have at least some leadership with backbones that aren't made of rubber.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our word on the conflict between Israel and Palestine is that we were an honest broker.

    And, Trump proves that to be a total lie.

    There was NO intent to be an honest broker AT ALL.

    Read the news. Nobody suggests the US has any possibility of being an honest broker of ME peace.
     
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  16. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IF you understood how the deal works, you might see it. Requiring it to fit your logic pretty much insures you won't. That is how Trump got elected- the dem side were all too smart for their own good and failed to see what was right in front of them.

    And it was never a bargaining chip. It was a fact we were in denial of in order to not "offend" people whose stock in trade is being offended by our very existence.
    Two state solution? The report I saw said trump still favors it.
    You sound remarkably like a lefty that doesn't know he has a right hand.
     
  17. PT78

    PT78 Banned

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    What backbone? Virtually no country thinks the move is anything but foolish.

    Doing something you promised to do means nothing if almost everyone else thinks the move is a stupid one. That does not gain you respect - it loses it.

    So, I ask you again, how EXACTLY does this help America?
     
  18. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are thinking of :"respect" like a street gang demands- do what we want or we will be mad at you,. That's not respect, but it's what we have been doing... appeasing threats.
    Since this is all internal within Israel, it has no effect on anyone else in a factual basis- just in attitude, where they think they should be able to dictate by threat.

    There are a lot more sheep in the world than there are leaders. Baaa Baaa from the herd is hardly any kind of respect, at least not that's worth anything.
    People don't respect an Opossom, because you can walk up and kick it's butt anytime you want to. While it may hiss or threaten, it will play dead before it will defend.
    However, they do respect a bear- and they leave it alone, because they know that messing with it will get their plow cleaned throughly.
    So- we have to decide who is "respectable"- the opossom who rolls over, or the bear that you damn well know better than to mess with.

    It's pretty much that simple. Cowards always applaud cowardice, but they respect guts.
     
  19. PT78

    PT78 Banned

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    That does not even make sense. No one respects someone more who does stupid things...even if they had kept their word. If I promise to drop a hammer on my foot...no one is going to respect me more if I do it.
    My word will mean more, but me respect level will drop.

    Besides, your rather bizarre example is not tangible even if whatever the heck your point is was right. No one is going to pay more for American goods out of respect.


    We KNOW that American lives abroad have been put substantially more at risk. So that is a tangible negative...innocent Americans could get killed who otherwise would not be.
    We know this will cause far more problems in the Middle East - it has already begun.
    We KNOW that the Palestinians will trust America less (they have already stated as such) and this will make America's attempts to broker a long term Israeli/Palestinian settlement even more difficult.
    We KNOW this will damage America's position with almost the entire Middle East, other than Israel, (it already has) thus making her military efforts in that region all the more difficult and more dangerous for US troops serving over there.

    So where is the tangible benefit?

    I bet you that you cannot come up with one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  20. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That he promised to do some stupid things and follow through with them, doesn't make him a great man. It's just showed he is going through with his idiocy.

    By the way "lock her up" ain't happening and neither is "Mexico" paying for the wall.
     
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  21. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jerusalem does not belong to Israel.
     
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  22. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are not our best allies. They've been sucking our money in the amount of billions from us and give us nothing but grief for it by flaunting international laws and demand us to defend them for it. Is that what a "best" allies does??
     
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  23. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But kow towing to Israel is good yes?
     
  24. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And why in hell do we have to "recognize" anything?? Pressure from Israel??
     
  25. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    kow towing? Is it kow towing to recognize your only ally in the middle east's capital?
    I thought that was what was called "diplomacy"?
    O but the palestinians don't like it: no one cares what people who lob rockets during cease fires and park munitions in UN hospitals and have an acknowledged terrorist front as their government, think.
     

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