Finland says debate on NATO membership 'will change' after Russian invasion

What does this mean? This simply means that 1. Russia will take care that the border with Finland must be more carefully controlled and Russian defense weapons should be redistributed according that. 2. Economic, cultural etc cooperation may be reduced.
Nothing else. As beautiful Finnish prime-minister said herself, such kind of words have been delivered to Finland before, but they do not mean anything really serious.

 

Polling is showing majority support for joining NATO in both nations. This is a huge shift in opinion, and it comes before Moscow has even properly started razing Ukrainian cities. It isn't clear if NATO wants to expand its area of responsibility, especially so close to St Peasantburg, but if it is open to the idea this may be the moment to get it done.

By the time this war is done Putin won't be in a position to threaten anyone for a little while (short of nukes, which are a hollow threat). Just as Russian weakness in the late 90s/early 2000s was a window for Eastern European states to escape their former tormentor for good, this might be a window for states that might potentially be threatened in future to secure their safety.

We are well past the point where there is any point being nice to Russia hoping it will act like a civilized nation. That is not going to happen anytime soon. Better to cement those defensive alliances and weather the storm of abuse while that is the only stoem tha tcan be unleashed.

 

There is a possibility of popular vote in Finland about the membership. The support has been around 37% in the past, and now it's 53%, but of course its not just up to them to vote for it, because NATO would have to accept the application.

 

Waw, how pathetic!

 

So you say.

Putin said a few weeks ago he wasn't invading Ukraine. He's the guy we are paying attention to.

 

This is true. He has said. Here I do not know what to object.

 

It was easy to make this judgment at the time, as many of us did. The US was not attacked by the Taliban. The US attacked the Taliban. The US was the aggressor on the military level.

9/11 was not a military operation. It was a crime. It should have been treated as such, and the people behind it should have been brought to justice. The people behind it were not the Taliban, the Afghan people, Iraq, or anyone other than the actual people behind it.

Instead of handling it as what it was, a crime, the US decided to use it as an excuse to attack others with its massive military, murdering so many people and ultimately leaving having accomplished little.

 

And how was the us supposed to prosecute those criminals when their country’s were actively hiding them?

 

I don't recall the US bothering to ask for any such investigation. As I recall the US just went in guns blazing, pretending everybody over there and even everybody muslim was the enemy for quite a while. It wound up attacking countries on false pretenses, fabricating "Evidence", etc. All now well known but people bought into it at the time due to tribalism.

 

So you really can't see the national security threat in allowing OBL to conduct such an attack, and afterwards remain in a foreign state? A lot of killers have grievances against the US. A lot of governments also have grievances, and don't have extradition treaties

It doesn't take a lot of foresight to predict the security nightmare that would develop if attacks like 9/11 were simply treated as "crimes".

 

I don't believe any nation has been forced to join NATO. They want to join because they see it in their citizen's interest to do so.

Nations don't choose to be ruled by Russia, they are forced.

 

Mistaking criminal activity for acts of war is a huge mistake, that led to many lives gone. The US needs to try to work with other governments, including ones it does not like, and give those governments a chance to cooperate, rather than treating those governments as one and the same as the criminals who did the crime. 9/11 was a crime. Not an act of war. It was done by a terrorist organization. Not a government. The US made minimal if any effort at all to handle it as a crime and turned directly to using it as an excuse to attack other countries, including countries that weren't even involved in that particular crime. The people in the regime at the time had been looking for excuses to attack for quite some time and this was their excuse.

 

Congrats Putin. You did it. You managed to unite everyone against yourself . President of Finland visited the CIA and WH yesterday in DC and now Sweden and Finland are entering "Major non-NATO alliance (MNNA)" defense pact with the US (same alliance as US-Australia pact). Full NATO membership is also still a possibility

 

They wouldn't give him up. If the Taliban were allowed to do that, it would have been open season on the US. It's fairly simple.

 

Not allowed? By whom? Did they even try? Didn't appear so. It appeared that they were making excuses to attack various middle eastern countries.

 

Finland's former prime minister says Russia could retaliate against his country for joining NATO, but it's well prepared
Sinéad Baker
Thu, April 14, 2022, 5:47 AM

• Finland is close to joining NATO in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
  
  
• Former PM Alexander Stubb said Russia may retaliate — likely in the form of a cyberattack — in response, but Finland is prepared.
  
  
• Russia has threatened Finland if it joins NATO. Stubb said it shows Russia is "weak."
  

... https://news.yahoo.com/finlands-former-prime-minister-says-104759936.html​

 

Finland and Sweden pursue unlinked NATO membership
Gerard O'Dwyer
Thu, April 14, 2022, 4:34 PM

... Sweden has decided to examine a range of security-related options, including deepening Nordic defense cooperation and urging the European Union to develop enhanced defense policies to offer greater military protection to EU member states that border the highly sensitive Baltic Sea and High North regions.

Unlike Sweden, the Finnish government has set the wheels in motion to fast-track its application to join NATO against the backdrop of heightened security tensions in the region elevated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Prime Minister Sanna Marin told opposition party leaders, the majority of whom back the government on this issue, that she expects a decision on NATO membership soon.

... https://news.yahoo.com/finland-sweden-pursue-unlinked-nato-213446297.html​

Interesting, interesting. I wonder what Sweden will end up doing. Looks like Finland will very likely be applying to join NATO, and soon, though.

 

Sweden wants to stay in the limelight and will probably throw all caution to the wind and try to beat Finland to the goal post by becoming a NATO member before Finland does. Much depends upon the national elections this year but the only party that firmly opposes NATO (AfS) hasn't a dog's chance of winning a seat in parliament.

 

They asked for Bin Laden to be extradited to the US for prosecution. The Taliban refused.

 

Requesting extradition and making a decision on whether or not to oblige are both legal actions. Invading a nation and assassinating someone is a criminal act. Do you understand the difference? In any case, what is it you think bin Laden is guilty of?

 

Did the Taliban have Bin Laden in custody?

It did not seem to me that the Bush administration had any interest in treating 9/11 as a crime. It was sold as a war.

 

It's a 'crime' if you have some possibility of apprehending the guy.
It could be a war if he's a 'guest' of a nation with sympathies towards him.

 

I watched most of the coverage and I recall seeing no attempts to work with the Taliban in any way. As I recall, the Taliban was treated as enemy from day one and was not addressed as an authority and appealed to to charge Bin Laden.

As I recall the Bush admin then used the turmoil as an excuse to attack Iraq, who had no connection to Bin Laden, and ignored Saudi Arabia where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from.

 

Both the US and UN asked for his extradition.

 

Finland inches closer to NATO after parliament expresses support for military alignment
Wed, April 20, 2022, 10:35 AM

HELSINKI (Reuters) - Finland inched closer to joining NATO on Wednesday after its major parliamentary groups expressed support for some form of a military alliance as a response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The Finnish Parliament on Wednesday began debating the possibility of Finland, which shares a long border with Russia, joining NATO.

Prime Minister Sanna Marin's Social Democrats stopped short of mentioning NATO in their addresses but nevertheless voiced support for an idea of a military alliance.

... https://news.yahoo.com/finland-inches-closer-nato-parliament-153550164.html​

Good job expanding NATO, Vladolf.