Finland says debate on NATO membership 'will change' after Russian invasion

I am glad you are learning from me

 

**** the Russians. NATO needs to let all those countries join and that fewer troop The United States will need to send to fight their war.

 

32 min ago
NATO could increase presence around Baltic Sea and Swedish borders during potential Swedish application

From CNN's Henrik Pettersson and Niamh Kennedy

NATO could increase its presence around the Baltic Sea and Swedish borders if Sweden decides to apply for membership of the alliance, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Thursday.

When asked during an interview with Swedish public broadcaster SVT how NATO would protect Sweden during the potential application process, Stoltenberg said:

"There are different ways to do it. But I am convinced that we will find solutions for the security needs Sweden will have in a transitional period from the time Sweden applies until it becomes a member."
Stoltenberg stressed that "from the moment" Sweden decides to apply and NATO says it wants Sweden to join, "there is a very strong commitment from NATO to be able to guarantee Sweden’s security."

"We have different ways of marking it, including through increased presence of NATO and NATO forces in the area around Sweden and the Baltic Sea," the secretary general continued.

Finland and Sweden are both considering potential applications to the alliance following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde told a press conference on April 29 that no decision on membership will made before May 13, when an analysis report from the Swedish parliament on membership is set to be delivered.

Finland's membership decision also hinges on a government security report. A senior Western diplomat said Thursday that the Finnish Foreign Affairs Committee is expected to draft a response on the Finnish government’s security report as early as May 11.



CNN's Lauren Kent, Nic Robertson, James Frater and Arnaud Siad contributed to this report. ​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-05-22/index.html

 

1 hr 57 min ago
Finland joining NATO would "strengthen" security in northern Europe, says Finnish foreign minister

From CNN's Niamh Kennedy


Finland's Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto speaks with the media as he arrives for a meeting of NATO foreign ministers at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, on April 6. (Virginia Mayo/AP)

The accession of Finland to NATO would "strengthen" the security of the Baltic Sea region and northern Europe, according to the country's Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto.

Haavisto addressed the European Parliament's Committee on Foreign Affairs Thursday, just minutes after a joint statement was published from the Finnish President and Prime Minister announcing their support for applying for NATO membership.

"Should Finland decide to apply, the accession of Finland would strengthen the security and stability for the Baltic Sea region and north of Europe," Haavisto told EU lawmakers.

Stressing that the country is now "fast approaching the point of national decision making," Haavisto laid out further benefits of Finnish membership.

[same map image as above, so removed]​

"From NATO's perspective Finland has solid democratic credentials that meet NATO's membership criteria, and has a strong and credible national defense that is interoperable with NATO," he said.

"We are convinced that Finland would bring added value to NATO. Our war time strength of the defense forces is 280,000 troops, and the trained reserve is 900,000 men and women," Haavisto continued.

He also set out the threats created by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, calling Moscow's "unpredictable behavior" an "imminent issue."

The invasion of Ukraine is "an attack against the entire European security order," said Haavisto, who emphasized the need for the EU to do its "utmost to give Ukraine political, military, economic and humanitarian support." ​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-12-22/index.html

 

53 min ago
Russia will be "forced to take retaliatory steps" if Finland joins NATO, Russian foreign ministry says

From CNN's Uliana Pavlova and Radina Gigova in London

Finland "must be aware of the responsibility and consequences" of joining NATO, Russia's foreign ministry said in a statement Thursday, adding that Russia "will be forced" to take retaliatory steps if the country joins the alliance.

“The statement by Finnish President S. Niinistö and Finnish Prime Minister S. Marin, who spoke today in favor of Finland joining NATO, is a radical change in the country's foreign policy," the Russian foreign ministry said, adding "Helsinki must be aware of the responsibility and consequences of such a move."

Finland's possible accession to NATO would cause serious damage to bilateral Russian-Finnish relations, which are maintaining stability and security in the Northern European region, the ministry said.


Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto speaks at a press conference at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, on January 24. (Dursun Aydemir/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images)

"Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop the threats to its national security that arise in this regard," it said.

"Joining NATO will also be a direct violation of Finland's international legal obligations, primarily the Paris Peace Treaty of 1947 and the 1992 Treaty between Russia and Finland on the fundamentals of relations,” Russia's foreign ministry said.

Finland shares an 800-mile border with Russia.​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-12-22/index.html

 

Looks like it is pretty much a done deal for Finland already.

Finland to apply to NATO 'without delay' as Russia threatens 'retaliatory steps
Niamh Cavanagh
Thu, May 12, 2022, 8:37 AM

LONDON — Finland’s leaders said it intended to apply for NATO membership “without delay” — prompting Russia to threaten it would “be forced to take retaliatory steps” if the Nordic country joins the Western military alliance.

Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin and President Sauli Niinistö released a joint statement on Thursday announcing their support for Finland, which shares an 810-mile border with Russia, in joining the alliance.

...

Marin’s Social Democratic Party is expected to announce a decision about joining on Saturday, with the five-party coalition in Helsinki expected to announce on Sunday.

... https://news.yahoo.com/finland-to-a...ia-threatens-retaliatory-steps-133741633.html​

Ready your oft-threatened "military-technical measures," Botox Gitler, because Finland is signing up!

 

And the United States and Great Britain formed an alliance with the USSR to defeat Nazi Germany.

​

Back to present realities.

NATO is the defensive coalition of democratic nations that Trump sniveled about and declared "obsolete."

His "savvy genius" has been very pissy about it as well.

Russia and China criticize NATO


"NATO is very obsolete!"
​

Putin's perfidy in Ukraine is a recruitment drive for NATO.

As Russia’s grinding war pulverizes eastern Ukraine and eats away at the global economy, it is also creating unintended consequences for President Vladimir V. Putin, whose aggression is giving rise to a stronger, Western-aligned security architecture in Europe, the very thing the Russian leader had hoped to weaken.
Finland’s leaders announced on Thursday that their country should “apply for NATO membership without delay,” while Swedish leaders are expected to do the same within days. It is a remarkable shift by two nations on Russia’s doorstep that had long remained nonaligned militarily — but where public opinion has lurched strongly toward joining the alliance in the 11 weeks since Russia invaded Ukraine...
Although NATO is expected to admit both nations, the process could take a year or longer, leaving them vulnerable to Russian retaliation while they are not covered under the alliance’s collective defense pact.​

​

Prime Minister Boris Johnson of Britain sought on Wednesday to fill that gap, signing security agreements with Finland and Sweden that committed Britain, one of Europe’s strongest militaries, to defending them if attacked — even if they ended up not joining NATO.

[https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/12/world/russia-ukraine-war-news]​

 

I hope they are stocking up on Javelins and Stingers at this point.

They still curse Princess Diane and her anti land mine crusade. Finland had to the whole border mined, and then had to remove them because of her.

 

Finns are not cursing Princess Diana as best as I can determine.

The United Nations Mine Ban Treaty (Ottawa Mine Treaty) - a legally binding prohibition on the use, stockpiling, production and transfer of landmines - was written in 1997. Since then,165 countries, Finland included, have become parties to the agreement. Finland had been a major contributor to humanitarian mine victim assistance and mine clearance before joining the treaty.

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=IND&mtdsg_no=XXVI-5&chapter=26&clang=_en

 

That treaty was Diane's bleeding heart hobby, and it had a major impact on defense of Finland where mines played a big role.

 

Mines kill innocent people just as surely as soldiers. The world is better off without them.

 

EXPLAINER: Why Finland, Sweden joining NATO will be big deal
LORNE COOK
Thu, May 12, 2022, 5:21 AM·4 min read

BRUSSELS (AP) — It’s likely to be the quickest NATO enlargement ever and one that would redraw Europe’s security map. Finnish leaders announced Thursday their belief that Finland should join the world’s biggest military organization because of Russia's war in Ukraine. Sweden could soon follow suit.

Should they apply for membership, the move would have far-reaching ramifications for Northern Europe and trans-Atlantic security.

No doubt, it will also anger their large neighbor Russia, which blames, at least in part, its war in Ukraine on NATO’s continued expansion closer to its borders. It's unclear how Russian President Vladimir Putin might retaliate. The Kremlin said Thursday that it certainly won't improve European security.

... https://news.yahoo.com/explainer-why-finland-sweden-joining-102127032.html​

That last line is a doozy: "The Kremlin said Thursday that it certainly won't improve European security." Sounds like the Kremlin is admitting that it is working against European security.

 

As far as I am aware they never killed anyone on FIN-RUS border.

The problem was in Cambodia and Vietnam where the countryside was littered with anti personnel mines, many of which are ours.

 

If you like to think Princess Diana's campaign that exposed all the innocent children, women, and men killed or maimed by landmines led to 165 nations banning and removing them, you can, of course.

Pretending that Finns "still curse Princess Diane" is just very silly.

 

The people who ran the campaign claim her involvement was a turning point in their efforts, because they had not managed to get much attention to their mission, but she was able to do that. I don't know....maybe they lie about it for some curious reason.

and

Diana's support was 'turning point' in landmine ban effort
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-41111012

=========================================================
As for Finland defense forces, they were NOT amused about having to destroy over a million mines, especially when Russia refused to join the treaty, and now they are even less amused and even talking about pulling out of the treaty. Having said that, it seems the Finns have developed an alternative to landmines, but they are not revealing much information about it.

Growing calls for Finland to withdraw from Ottawa Mine Ban Treaty
https://www.euractiv.com/section/al...land-to-withdraw-from-ottawa-mine-ban-treaty/
The war in Ukraine is making politicians and citizens think again about Finland’s signing of the Ottawa Mine Ban Treaty of 1997 to eliminate anti-personnel landmines by November 2011.

The treaty aims to eliminate the production, stockpiling, storage and use of land mines worldwide.

The decision to join the Ottawa Treaty caused controversy in 2011, but it was approved by parliament with 110 in favour and 47 against. The treaty’s strongest advocates were peace organisations and the then-president Tarja Halonen (SDP), while the defence ministry at the time disagreed.

The land border between Finland and Russia is 1,300 kilometres long, and Russia has not signed the mine ban. Other countries that are not party include the US, China, India, Iran, Israel, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

 

If you can document your claim that Finns "still curse Princess Diane," I shall be very surprised.

 

The Finnish defense forces were very upset about it and even consider pulling out of her treaty, so that is how I worded it. Sorry if it triggered something in you.

 

13 min ago
Swedish government says it has decided to apply for NATO membership

From CNN's Stephanie Halasz


Sweden's Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson gives a news conference in Stockholm, Sweden, on May 16. (Photo by Henrik Montgomery/TT News Agency/AFP/Getty Images)

The Swedish government has said on its website that it has decided to apply for NATO membership.

"The Government’s assessment is that NATO membership is the best way to protect Sweden’s security in light of the fundamentally changed security environment following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine," it said.

The statement said the decision is based on a "security analysis" that the government invited "other Riksdag (parliament) parties to take part in." Its conclusions were presented in a report on May 13.

Earlier Monday, Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said Sweden should join NATO together with neighboring Finland to "ensure the safety of Swedish people."

When asked when exactly the country will hand in the application, she said it could it happen this week — either Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. She added that it needs to be done in coordination with Finland.​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-16-22/index.html

It is kind of funny how attached at the hip Sweden and Finland seem to be, with Finland leading the way on this issue. Still, it's great to see two economic and military powerhouses formally joining the alliance!

 

8 min ago
Denmark, Iceland and Norway "strongly welcome" Finnish and Swedish decision to apply for NATO membership

From CNN's Niamh Kennedy in London

The leaders of Denmark, Iceland and Norway have welcomed Finland and Sweden's decision to apply for membership of NATO.

"We strongly welcome Finland and Sweden’s decisions to apply for NATO membership," the three nations said in a joint statement.

"We note that the decisions by Finland and Sweden to apply for NATO membership are sovereign national decisions in line with Finland and Sweden’s right to choose their own security arrangements. Finland and Sweden have the right to pursue their accession process without any attempts of outside interference," the statement said.

More context: On Monday, the Swedish government announced its decision to apply for NATO membership after determining that membership "is the best way to protect Sweden’s security in light of the fundamentally changed security environment following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."

Last week, Finnish President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin said Finland must apply for membership "without delay" and will complete the steps it needs to on the national level "in the next couple of days."

The three nations stressed Monday that Finnish and Swedish security are "a matter of common concern to us all."

"Should Finland or Sweden be victim of aggression on their territory before obtaining NATO membership, we will assist Finland and Sweden by all means necessary," the three nations pledged.

They also vowed to do their "utmost to ensure a swift accession process, as Finland and Sweden already live up to the relevant criteria for NATO membership."

Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre pledged in a separate statement to "further develop our Nordic defense cooperation."​

Live updates: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-16-22/index.html

I sure wish Ukraine would have received this treatment when they spoke of joining, all of these warm words and pledges by other members to help them defend themselves even before they have completed the application process.

 

Not sure if true (heard it on FOX) but supposedly before the Russian invasion 80% of Finland did not want NATO and that supposedly changed to 80% now DO want NATO
I did not fact check these so apologies if the #s are incorrect (I usually try to fact check stuff from the big 3, FAUX, Clinton News Network and msnBS)

 

Finnish President says Turkey has agreed to support Finland and Sweden's NATO membership bids
By Kevin Liptak, Niamh Kennedy, Sugam Pokharel, Kate Sullivan and Donald Judd, CNN

Updated 2:49 PM ET, Tue June 28, 2022

Madrid (CNN)Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said on Tuesday that Turkey has agreed to support Finland and Sweden's NATO membership bids, removing a major hurdle to the two countries joining the alliance.

Niinistö said in a statement that a joint memorandum on the matter was signed by Turkey, Finland and Sweden on Tuesday in Madrid ahead of what is shaping up to be a critical summit.

The joint memorandum underscores the commitment of Finland, Sweden and Turkey "to extend their full support against threats to each other's security," Niinistö said.

... https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/joe-biden-g7-nato/index.html​

Great news!