Five paragraphs that have the potential to save this world!

Actually... they have some of the most interesting NDE's and tend to ask the being of light
far more interesting questions than are put forward by religious people.


Sixteen Atheist near death experiences are listed here;

http://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html

Near-Death Experiences of Atheists

 

Howard Storm Ph. D. is an example of a former Atheist who certainly did not enjoy life very much before his NDE.... but since then he is really on a mission to make the world a better place........

He is breaking many Christians out of many outdated
dark age style ideas.


http://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html

Howard Storm:

His book My Descent Into Death
generally appeals to Christians so.... if they read evidence that Jews can go to paradise / heaven..... even without accepting Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in the same way that they had done..... that is a pretty important stumbling block for Christians to climb over.

 

Thanks for that link!

Interesting that those who were living negative lives had negative NDE's whereas those that were living positive lives has positive NDE's.

Another point worthy of note is that no one was discriminated against anyone because of their religion, beliefs or lack thereof. If there is an afterlife there was no requirement that one had be "saved" or spent their life "worshipping" or "singing praises". And no one needed to actually "believe" in an "afterlife" or even in a "creator".

Which brings me back to the fact that atheists are no different to anyone else. Mostly they are normal people and amongst them there are a couple who are dickheads. This is no different to any other group of people irrespective of whatever group they belong to.

Having made the statement above I am going to apply a caveat because it is worthy of mentioning. There are some who take their religious beliefs to extremes and believe that they have been empowered to kill in the name of their deity. They are nothing more than criminals and don't deserve the excuse of religion for their heinous acts. And any religion and/or member of that religion who excuses that killing is no better than the criminals who did the killing IMO.

Aside from that I see no reason to alter my own spiritual atheism one iota. I am as flawed a person as any other and while I try to be a "good" person I still don't get it right 100% of the time. No, I don't "pray for forgiveness" because I am accountable and responsible for my own actions and as such will deal with whatever penalties that may be due to me if there is an afterlife.

The concept of an afterlife is appealing but illusionary. This is the life I have now and it is up to me to make the best of it that I can for myself and my nearest and dearest. If there is something afterwards I will deal with it when I get there but I still have bills to pay and an ailing spouse to care for so those are my priorities.

 

That is absolutely true........
I am a Christian myself so I am biased... but it sure seems to me like
Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his eternal form.... that was given to him
at his resurrection..... has the personality of the ultimate Cyrus type......
explained in Isaiah chapters 42 - 46.

Just as ancient King Cyrus, gave freedom of religion to the Jewish people,
he also gave freedom of religion to all 127 provinces of the Medo- Persian Empire and
yes..........
if the being of light of NDE fame is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus..... he is
rewarding loving people........
no matter if they are Atheist or Agnostic the same or even better than his own
followers......... partly because Atheists and Agnostics
are not being ethical and loving people in order to earn greater rewards in heaven......

they are doing it just because it is obvious that they should!

 

You nailed it!

 

But.... ethical Agnostics face certain tests that are a little different than
others...... ethical Agnostics know more about the scientific approach than
99% or more of Christians tend to........
so.......

they would know how to take an idea that I explain over here......
and apply it in such a way that an entire city block...... or a whole city........
might perhaps experience a seemingly miraculous decrease in
crime and murder.....????


http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/jesus-returns-in-2017.381229/page-46#post-1067208684

 

Actually... I think I will put that full post here:

......
Mellen Benedict.... an Atheist before his NDE..... asked better questions of the Being of Light of
NDE fame......
and in my opinion.....
got answers more useful for all of humanity.......

Whoever this being of light really is......
it would be wise to invite this loving intelligence into our cities.....
in order to increase the love quotient.......

Dr. Masaru Emoto did flawed research and did not
leave us with truly accurate statistics BUT.....
the results of his experiments give us
powerful evidence that we humans......
can alter the nature of water somehow.....
just by speaking words like "Love, Thankfulness, Gratefulness"
vs words like "Adolf Hitler"......
or "I hate you"......
the situations that our towns and cities are in do seem to call for drastic
or somewhat desperate measures.......????

http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/water-crystal.html

 

But..... could it be that a high percentage of us who think that
we understand the Bible extremely well actually are significantly off track in
our interpretation of the scriptures?


Matthew 11:9

 

Pastor Rick Joyner reminds me of Cephas / Peter.....
Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. reminds me of Judas Didymus Thomas........

I sure hope that the Bride of Messiah does not totally cripple herself again this time around.......

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html

 

I have decided to type out the next five paragraphs after those ones from the opening post:

Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D:

 

In a way... these child prodigies are indirect evidence indicating reincarnation......

 

On the subject of NDE...

What do you think of the notion that NDE's and perhaps even 'the afterlife' itself is a DMT trip?

Suppose the 90% unused portion of our brain fires up near death and in overdrive mode (think like overclocking a processor) 'dreams' an eternity in the few minutes it takes to burn out, fueled by the adrenaline and DMT that death causes the brain to excrete.

I base this on the fact that its common for folks to fall asleep and dream for what seems like hours in only minutes.

Its also (somewhat less common but still) common knowledge that our bodies have governors that turn off in times of crisis allowing people to lift cars of off entrapped children or fight on with what would usually be instantly mortal wounds.

What is the brain capable of when our biological 'safeties' are disengaged, as likely occurs at death?

 

Good theory.... because DMT trips do resemble out of the body experiences in some ways......
actually, it is possible that ketamine and DMT may trigger a genuine out of body experience......

but... the information that near death experiencers come back with is just too impressive
especially if it includes the Life Review.......
which in my opinion separate a mere out of body experience from a true near death experience.


https://www.near-death.com/science/research/life-review.html

The Life Review and the Near-Death Experience

 

Look at how a near death experience can inspire somebody to give up on the career that they are qualified for:

http://www.thomastwin.com/6 A Thomas background.html

Howard Storm Ph. D. gave up his lucrative position as head of the Art Department at a university.......
to go back to seminary to become a preacher!

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#top

 

Certain drugs are one of the 23 different ways listed by Kevin Williams
that can induce an NDE. At link #10 he presents a powerful case that this is further
evidence of NDE's having validity.


https://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers.html

Near-Death Experiences Induced By Triggers
By Kevin R. Williams, B.Sc.

​

Dr. Stanislav Grof, M.D., is a psychiatrist and one of the leading researchers into non-ordinary states of consciousness. In Tom Harpur's NDE documentary, Life After Death, Dr. Grof explains a theory of consciousness based on these non-ordinary states. Dr. Grof theorizes consciousness to be nonlocalized and that the brain may instead function as a "reducing valve" minimizing the cosmic energy input bombarding our body. Consciousness then arises as a product of this reducing function of the brain. Whenever the reducing function of the brain is altered (through various triggers such as out-of-body experiences, hallucinogenic drugs, mental psychosis, psychic visions, etc.) or even shut down completely as in NDEs, the reduced cosmic energy input that once made up our consciousness is then free to expand. This expansion of consciousness, in theory, accounts for these various types of mental phenomena and for the many "triggers" altering the reducing valve function of the brain. From the large collection of NDEs on this website, you can see how these triggers are capable of inducing NDE related phenomena.

NDEs Induced By Triggers Index
1. After-Death Communications 9. Dreams 17. Out-of-Body Experiences
2. Alien Abductions 10. Drugs 18. Psychic Visions
3. Astral Projection 11. Extreme Gravity 19. Psychomanteum
4. Brain Seizures 12. Extreme Meditation 20. Psychosis
5. Brain Stimulation 13. Extreme Stress 21. REM Desensitization
6. Coma 14. Falling from Heights 22. Shared Death Experiences
7. Death 15. Hypnosis 23. Surgery
8. Deathbed Visions 16. Orgasm


https://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers/drugs.html

The Trigger of Hallucinogenic Drugs:
Larry Hagman's Near-Death Experiences

 

I don't buy most near death experiences, and I certainly don't buy reincarnation, and I will keep reading this thread, but I have to point out a logical error here just because I know you will understand it and not make it again in the future. The "You aren't going to convince anyone if you can't convince me" argument is an anecdotal error... you are just one person out of billions, and you may or may not fall into the category of persons who would find any particular argument persuasive. The writer/speaker may not even be addressing you. I have a nephew who is very persuasive in his own way with members of the general public. I, being even smarter than him and more rational still, am quite persuasive with him. But my arguments are generally completely unpersuasive with the general public, even when he tries to use them. So just because you aren't persuaded doesn't mean others won't be, and vice versa.

 

I was talking to two people on the phone not long ago who are supporters of some new age peace religion started by some Californian and they argued for ten minutes on what the essentials of the message of peace was. I have since learned that they fell out over it and aren't talking to each other now. I'm not the least bit surprised. I'm not quite as cynical as you in thinking that they are all scam artists, some of them may be quite genuine in their beliefs, but they are struggling against hundreds of thousands of years of tribal programming that says, "Fight!"

Interesting theory. One writer suggested that most of the world's religions are caused by insufficient oxygen supply to the brain, mainly by people (Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha) spending time at the top of a mountain where the air pressure is low. Apparently, metaphysical experiences (seeing God) are quite common as a result.

 

I would even go so far as to say that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus probably induced a near death
state of consciousness through forty days of fasting.

It sounds to me like part of Matthew chapter 4 probably took place in the out of the body state.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/4/1/s_933001

Matthew 4:2

And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

Mat 4:5

¶
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,"
(This sounds like it could have been an out of the body experience)


Mat 4:8

¶
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
(This also sounds like an out of the body experience)

I believe that this can be compared with the four higher invisible dimensions of space and time shown to near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie.


https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/george-ritchie.html#a05e

.....

So.... do these invible dimensions of space -time that were shown to Dr. George Ritchie
correspond with the higher invisible dimensions of space - time postulated in String Theory?

 

I'd be more impressed with near-death experiences if they learned something new about someone else. If all they learn is what has gone on in their own lives, along with unverifiable information about the afterlife, they don't have much for me to go on.

Past life regression using hypnosis is also highly suspect. Professional hypnotists have convinced various people that they are/were some deceased public figure under hypnosis and then those people have answered questions as if they were those public figures, but they weren't able to correctly answer questions about those people's lives if they didn't know the answers already. They would answer the questions with absolute certainty as if they did know the answer, but they would be wrong.

Past life memories of children under the age of six are a far more interesting phenomenon, but there are other possible explanations for them than reincarnation.

 

That's a valid point, I don't mean to indicate that I am some arbiter of believability. I am merely annoyed at the fact that he doesn't really address believability. He adds detail upon detail in response to my protestations, but he doesn't address the notion that he might be wrong.

The fact that he fails to do so suggests to me that he doesn't have a grasp of the reason why he was convinced himself. There are many ways to be mislead in the world, if you don't understand believability, you may convince yourself of just about anything. I'm suggesting myself not as the person who they should try to convince, but a person without biases (hah, as if) or rather, a person whose biases are orthogonal to his.

 

Okay, explain "believability". Why am I convinced of some things and not others?

 

I'm not sure that this is the thread for a full discussion of the fundaments of epistemology. You can see in my first couple of posts that I am asking for justifications for belief, and that the answer have no (or seemingly no) relation to what I was asking, or for that matter, even what I was responding to.

 

Is the world, something, for you, that is something to be 'coveted' for and after? Don't feel bad if it is...

​

Tears for Fears are an English pop rock band formed in Bath in 1981 by Roland Orzabal and Curt Smith. Founded after the dissolution of their first band, the mod-influenced Graduate, they were initially associated with the new wave synthesiser bands of the early 1980s but later branched out into mainstream rock and pop, which led to international chart success. They were part of the MTV-driven Second British Invasion of the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears_for_Fears​

 

Yes........ the possibility of a child being psychic..... and
tapping into information from a fallen angel or ghost.... is one possibility......
but the Dr. Ian Stevenson research was impressive.........
especially the part about moles and birthmarks corresponding to wounds received that ended that remembered past life.

https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html#a03

 

One of the reasons why I am so convinced of all this strange and unusual stuff.....
is because I run into it again and again and again and again in near death experience account after NDE account after NDE account.......
so .... for example in order for me to throw away belief in reincarnation in some form.......
I would have to throw away near death experience accounts........
and I would not wish to do that and go back to the relative darkness that I had in 1988 before I began to study NDE's.

But so far as my convincing you goes......
I really am not trying to convince you.....
because I simply don't care whether you are convinced or not.....
because I now firmly believe in Eventual Universal Salvation.......
so I am really not worried about you being eternally lost in some sort of hell
if I fail totally in convincing you of anything.

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/christian-andreason.html#a04h

If.... the being of light of NDE fame is really Messiah Yeshua Jesus keeping several of his promises that he made while human.... then simply by researching this..... you may begin to hear Him.......... through these accounts just as so many other hear him through the Christian and Jewish scriptures.

John 6:63

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."