The P51 Mustang, rugged P47 Thunderbolt, F4F Hellcat and Wildcat, FU4 Corsair, and P40 are well known to those familiar with USA WW2 fighter aircraft. One of the forgotten superstar fighters is the twin engine P-38 Lightning. The first USA fighter to break 400 mph with later models capable of range up to 2500 miles, allowing it to be flown to Europe, rather than transported by ship. With the unique configuration of all guns in the nose, it was considered the most accurate of fighters as the wing mounted fighter's guns were set for fixed points of convergence. The P38 5 gun configuration fired 6,000 rounds per minute - with every 6th round a devastating 20mm. It had 35 seconds worth of 4 50cals and 14 seconds of 20mm rounds. While used in the European theater including D-Day, it was most used in the Pacific both as a fighter and bomber, with its most famous success in shooting down Yamamoto. They wrecked havoc on the Japanese navy, was used for ground support, and brought down many Japanese Zeros. Fast, rugged, long range. Its shortcoming was limited maximum dive speed. Though faster than an ME109, the ME109 could reach a higher dive speed due to air compression issues, causing the P38 to be replaced by the P51. At later stages, ME109s would only flee and never dog fight. The P38 then was assign recon roles due to it's extreme speed and range capability if lightened of most its guns and ammo. Being a large, stable twin engine and air cooled engines aircraft it was very popular with pilots. The combat weakeness of the P51 was its watercooled engine. One hit into the radiator and the P51 wasn't making it back home. I read this was the #1 downing cause of P51s - engine overheating due to radiator damage. With the P38 an entire motor could be lost and it could still fly home (not all twin engine aircraft in that era could fly on 1 engine). Also, because the pilot was not straight line from the engine due to 2 engines, it was a very difficult aircraft to shoot down from behind for the light firepower of the ZERO or ME109. For single engine fighters, both the pilot and engine are all a straight line if shot at from behind (most common location for killing another aircraft). Not so for the P38. Take out 1 motor and P38 still keeps flying. The pilot armor protected the pilot from any ZERO behind it. Nor was there a motor ahead of the pilot to hit - meaning the ZERO had to hit both outboard engines - not easy to do as the P38 was not sluggish like twin engine bombers. Over 10,000 P38s were built and it was the only fighter designed prior to the war that was still being manufactured at the end of the war, as all other early model fighters were replaced during the war. Post war, surplus aircraft were everywhere since the USA had literally nearly 200,000 left. Starting with less than 3000 aircraft in 1939, over 300,000 military aircraft were built during the war. While the war created a huge interest in private flying, the huge fuel consumption of warbirds - combined with high maintenance costs, caused civilian prior-military pilots to avoid warbirds instead for simple private aircraft. As a result, though a person could buy a warbird for next to nothing - as low as $300 for a P51 or P47, nearly all were scraped. The few remaining fighter aircraft of any model from WW2 sell for over a million dollars to many millions. Of the over 10,000 P38s built, 27 remain, most cosmetically restored for museums but not flyable. To show how costly military aircraft are now, the last version of the P38 - and the most advanced - cost the US government $97,000 each. The new AF35s cost over $100,000,000 each. While nearly all agree the P51 was the greatest USA fighter aircraft - and it probably was - my 2 favorites are the HUGE but relatively short range P47 with the massive firepower of 20mms and the P38 - with long range capabilities - the best version with 4 50cals and 1 20mm in the center. The P47 was probably WW2's best ground attack aircraft with the P38 a better dog fighter. While no American aircraft could every match the agility of the Zero - largely due to the Zero having no armor and small guns, the P38 and many other later USA aircraft were faster and vastly more rugged. Likely, of all fighters the P38 was the most survivable if hit due to it's twin engines, though the P47 was extremely rugged provided its engine wasn't hit. The P38s 4 50 cals and 1 20mm would blow apart the Zero with as little as one hit and many a P38 pilots became aces. While early on, American fighter pilots knew to never take on a Zero in a one on one fight, P38s not only would do so, but even would take on being outnumbered by Zeros and take all the Zeros out without a single lose. Because of the light guns of the Zero, American pilot seats with heavy armor plate, and the twin engines it was difficult for a ZERO to shoot down a P38, even if getting behind it. However, as the war progressed, American pilots also were better trained and more experienced than the Japanese, who had more planes than pilots - and both German and Japan lacked the high octane fuel for much flight training time anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning WW2 was unique in world history in terms of not just warfare, but the massive manufacturing arms race both in the total effort of war and massive production and technology race. Nuclear weapons assure there will never be such a world war again. While the there are a million ways to analyze WW2, it seems clear one valid claim is that victory went to the side that had the largest scale of manufacturing output over the long haul of the war. The level of machinery and equipment the USA threw into the war on the land, in on the sea and in the air was of astronomical levels unlike ever before - or ever again. Same for personnel. The contrast is stark. Just the number of pilots the USA had in WW2 is larger than the entire Air Force today. In WW2 we had over 300,000 fighter aircraft. Now? Less than 2000 in the Air Force and half of those can't fly for lack of maintenance. It is about as bad for the Navy, Army and Marine aircraft.
I wouldn't consider the P-38 a forgotten aircraft. You see a P-38 at about every airshow on display many times actually conducting flight demonstrations. Historically it was the P-38 that shotdown the Jap aircraft killing Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto over the Southwest Pacific. The P-38 saw a lot of action in the Southwest Pacific during WW ll before being replaced with the P-51 Mustang. Forgotten aircraft would be those aircraft that younger aviation enthusiast have never seen or younger WW ll history buffs who only read about. Northrop's P-61 (Black Widow) was the first night fighter. ARMAMENT 4 x 20mm cannons, 4 x 12.7mm machine-guns, 2900kg of bombs P-61 was the first U.S. fighter equipped with radar. The first prototype flew on May 21, 1942. A total of 706 aircraft were built. http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/northrop_widow.php The F-35 of the early years of WW ll was the Brewster F-2A Buffalo It's what the Marines flew during the battle of Wake Island and the battle of Midway. "If anyone was victorious in a Brewster F2A Buffalo over a Zero, it must have been because the Zero pilot was laughing so hard at the sight of Buffalo engaging him that he had tears in his eyes and didn't see the Buffalo pilot was serious until it was too late... " http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/brewster_buffalo.php Everyone remembers the Douglas C-47 (DC-3) in the USN, & USMC it was classified as the R4D but there was the Curtiss C-46 Commando that saw a lot of service during WW ll. http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/curtiss_commando.php The Douglas A-26 Invader almost an exact copy of the Martin B-26 Marauder. Probably served longer in the USAF than any other WW ll bomber well into the Vietnam War and continued being used by the CIA throughout the 1980's. http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/douglas_invader.php Good source -> http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/index.php Homepage -> http://www.aviastar.org/index2.html
Some of what I've read about it, while it was good for ground attack missions in Europe, it suffered some of the same disadvantages as the ME-110 as a fighter. Japanese planes not being as sturdy as German planes were however, very vulnerable to them
Battlefield Air Interdiction (BAI) not to be confused with Close Air Support (CAS) During WW ll only the U.S. Marine Corps was capable of successfully providing CAS. The only aircraft that was really good at CAS was the Chance Vought F-4U Corsair. The best aircraft for CAS are the Douglas A-1 Skyraider, the F-4 U Corsair, the A-10 Warthog and the A-4 Skyhawk in that order. Close air support (CAS) is air action by fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft against hostile targets that are in close proximity to friendly forces and requires detailed integration of each air mission with the fire and movement of those forces. https://fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_09_3.pdf The only country that has been able to successfully use CAS in actual combat is the USA. That's why any time NATO forces conduct combat training exercises where CAS will be used you'll see USMC ANGLICO units attached to NATO infantry units. http://www.americanspecialops.com/usmc-special-operations/anglico/ Air interdiction (AI), also known as deep air support (DAS), is the use of preventive aircraft attacks against enemy targets, that are not an immediate threat, in order to delay, disrupt, or hinder later enemy engagement of friendly forces. So lets digress. The topic is Battlefield air interdiction (BAI) aka Air Interdiction (AI) During WW ll there were American, British, Soviet and German aircraft that were good at Air Interdiction on the battlefield. The best the USA had was the P-47 Thunderbolt. http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/republic_thunderbolt.php http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b056508.pdf Another "unforgotten" aircraft was the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps B-25 Mitchel bombers classified as the PBJ-1 that was converted to being an attack aircraft basically being used as a strafer armed with 16 X .50 cal heavy machine guns or 10 X .50 HMG and a 75 mm gun. (Some USAFF B-25's had a 37 mm gun in the nose) Cleaning the barrel of the 75mm gun. U.S. Marine Corps. PBJ-1J "Devil Dog" patrol bomber - front gun armament
Cool. Some that were strafing the airfields almost got close enough to mow the grass. I wonder if the .50 did much damage to the Tiger?
One of my favorite forgotten aircraft is the Hs 129. Intended as a follow up to the Stuka for CAS for Germany. It had 4 20mm cannons and one of the variants had a 75mm Anti-tank gun.
The Hs 129 was designed solely for ground attack and first went into service on the Russian Front in 1942. The original Hs 129A was fitted with two Argus As 410A 12-cylinder inverted-Vee air-cooled engines driving Argus automatic controllable-pitch propellers. This was later superseded by the Hs 129B series with two French-built 492kW Gnome-Rhone 14M 04/05 radial engines driving Ratier propellers. The Hs 129B-1 and B-2 were the major production variants, the latter fitted to carry a drop-tank. Some were equipped experimentally with the SG 113A recoilless gun installation: a battery of six 75mm smooth-bore tubes, each 1.6m long, mounted in the fuselage at an angle slightly beyond the vertical to fire downwards and rearwards. The weapon was intended for use against tanks and was triggered automatically when the aircraft flew over a tank at low altitude. A total of more than 800 Hs 129 were built... -> http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/henshel-129.php
There are not very many of them still flying : http://p38assn.org/surviving.htm A great book about the P-38 is Martin Caidin's "Fork-Tailed Devil". https://www.amazon.com/Fork-Tailed-Devil-Military-History-Ibooks/dp/0743413180 For those who love to read about WWII aircraft in action, I highly recommend any of Caidin's books. I read them all 40 years ago when I was in high school. Unfortunately, Caidin died in 1997. Worse, most people remember him for writing the book "Cyborg" in which the television show "The Six-Million Dollar Man" was based, not his great collection of aviation non-fiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Caidin
My understanding there are 19 P-38's in the USA, 9 that are airworthy, 8 on display and 5 is the restoration process. I live in less than an hour drive from the Chino airport in the San Berdoo county which is the home of the "Planes of Fame" and the "Yanks Museum" Over 190 war birds on display many that are airworthy and take to the air on weekends and or fly to air shows around the country. There are two P-38's at Chino that still fly. https://yanksair.org/ http://www.planesoffame.org/ 2018 CHINO AIR SHOW – MAY 5TH & 6TH Saturday, May 5 at 8:00 am - Sunday, May 6 at 4:00 pm
When I talk with folks about WW2 planes, the P38 always comes up. I don't think its 'forgotten'. But it is cool
That poster is of the 2 I said are my favorites! Old folks know the P38, but they are never used in movies so I doubt younger people tend to have heard of it.
That's why we have organizations like the former "Confederate Air Force" who were forced to change their name in the name of p olitical correctness. Today the Conferderate Air Force is called -> https://commemorativeairforce.org/ And the Planes of Fame at the Chino airport in Chino, Ca to keep those old WW ll war birds flying. It's really tough for Hollywood when they make a WW ll movie. "Saving Private Ryan" they got almost every thing right, the uniforms, weapons, etc but towards the end of the movie when the Americans were in a fire fight in the French village a P-51 appears and one American soldier yells "P-51...tank buster." The tank buster during WW ll was the P-47 not the P-51. The script called for a P-47 but they couldn't find one to use. So they used a P-51. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Republic_P-47_Thunderbolts The military adviser for "Saving Private Ryan" was Capt. Dale Dye (the best in the business.) -> http://www.warriorsinc.com/ He informed the director Steven Spielberg that the P-51 wasn't the "tank buster" but the P-47 was and they should change the script but Spielberg refused to and now you have tens of millions thinking the P-51 was the tank buster because Hollywood got it wrong. When Hollywood needs Jap Zeros they use the Condor Squadron out of Van Nuys Airport, North American Aviation AT-6 Texans aircraft because the AT-6 looks just like a Jap Zero. https://www.condorsquadron.org/ The Legendary AT-6 “Texan” North American Aviation AT-6 Texan Japanese Mitsubishi A6M Zero
I just discovered a forgotten aircraft and it's close by in Upland, Ca. at Cable airport. It's with the CAF 3rd Pursuit Squadron -> http://3rdpursuitsquadron.com/ Messerschmidt Bf-108 Four-seat cabin monoplane designed originally as the M 37 by the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke company (which became Messerschmitt in 1935) for the 1934 Challenge de Tourisme Internationale. Production as the Bf 108 Taifun began in 1934. Operated by the Luftwaffe during World War II as a communications and personnel transport. Power was provided by a 179kW Argus As.10C http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/me-108.php
I noticed that right away and laughed at the notion. Now a days, CGI is doing pretty good creating authentic looking aircraft. Of course, WW II movies from the post war years often used whatever tanks they could borrow. I recall the German crosses being painted on M-48 tanks in one movie. I think I saw a bf-108 here http://militaryaviationmuseum.org/ Worth a look if you're visiting VA beach.
That's the same plane James Garner and Donald Pleasance stole and flew out in the movie "The Great Escape".
For those who love the B-17, Queen of Bombers, this is from "The War Lover" Stunt pilot Paul Mantz bellies a B-17 in "Twelve O'Clock High"
There's a name I haven't heard in a many years, Paul Mantz.-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mantz Someone should start a thread on "Forgotten Pilots of the Past." During the 70's and 80's I would go to air shows just to see Bob Hoover do his thing. Bod Hoover was considered the best pilot in the world. I don't think anyone has been able to fill Hoover's flying boots. Bod Hoover was so famous that the Soviet Union during the height of the Cold War invited Bob Hoover to Russia to fly one of their new Mig's. This is what I remember Bob Hoover for. Hoover was best known for his civil air show career, which started when he was hired to demonstrate the capabilities of Aero Commander's Shrike Commander, a twin piston-engined business aircraft that had developed a staid reputation due to its bulky shape. Hoover showed the strength of the plane as he put the aircraft through rolls, loops, and other maneuvers, which most people would not associate with executive aircraft. As a grand finale, he shut down both engines and executed a loop and an eight-point hesitation slow roll as he headed back to the runway. Upon landing he would touch down on one tire followed gradually by the other. After pulling off the runway, he would start his engines to taxi back to the parking area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hoover Aero Commander Air Force legend Bob Hoover stole a Nazi plane to escape a POW camp
My wife and I met Bob Hoover at a flyin. Great guy and a great pilot. Paul Mantz was certainly a top pilot in his own right, but from what I read, he was a bit of a dick. His partner, Frank Tallman, was better liked. Mantz died in making "Flight of the Phoenix" which is why the movie shows the takeoff but not the landing. On takeoff, a close look at the Phoenix shows tiny wheels under the skids. On landing, Mantz hooked a skid and it flipped. That big ass radial (P&W?) broke loose and landed on him. A reporter was riding with him in the back seat and lived to tell the tale. Frank Tallman was supposed to have flown the stunt, but had shattered his leg in a go-cart accident with his son. The leg was amputated and Tallman ended up being the only pilot type-rated in as 727 with one leg. He flew stunts in The Great Waldo Pepper and organized the flying team for Catch-22. The B-25 was another classic bomber. This takeoff scene from Catch-22 is awesome.
Hitler made many terrible mistakes in his control of design and production of Germany's military equipment. For aircraft - manneFor td and unmanned - the 3 greatest were; 1. The V1 and V2 rockets were a total waste of effort. WW2 proved that bombing civilian targets only diverted from attacking military and industrial targets - and only hardened the resolve of the population. All effort, production, cost and personnel for the V1 rocket and V2 missile were waste and counter productive. 2. Failure to develop a 4 engine long range heavy bomber. Because of this, Germany could not reach Russia's Eastern factories and their massive output. Most German bombers were medium bombers at best. Just production of the outstanding T34 tank reached 2,000 PER MONTH. 3. Ironically, Hitler delayed putting their jet fighter into large scale production for nearly a year, his demanding they develop it instead as a bomber for his fixation on bombing London and the UK. Had Germany put their jet fighter into the air in both the West and East, Germany would have had months of nearly total domination of the air. It was only luck that either our fighters or bomber crews could hit their jets - mostly by massed fire. If Germany had controlled the air - even for a few months at that stage - it could have altered the course of their war with Russia and made the Normandy D-Day landing likely too risky to attempt.
1. The V-1 wasn’t a dumb design. It was incredibly cheap, used a fuel that didn’t impact the rest of the German war machine much, and was interceptible, meaning the allies had to move fighter squadrons back to Britain to defend against them. The V-2 was entirely useless without a WMD warhead. 2. So what does Germany not build in order to build all these 4 engine bombers? Their medium bombers were priceless for supporting their army’s advances, a job a high level strategic 4 engined bomber can’t do. 3. Germany rushing their jet fighters into production just means the allies focus more efforts on the Meteor, P-80, and Vampire. The Meteor actually flew BEFORE the Me-262 and could have been pushed out in larger numbers than the 262 and on top of that, it was a superior fighter. The Germans are not going to win the war period after Stalingrad and Kursk.
Agreed and all good examples of why letting politicians run a war is going to end up a loser. Same thing with LBJ in Vietnam.
