Former Russian foreign minister: China will 'never' treat Putin as 'equal'

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by tharock220, Mar 13, 2022.

  1. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing that he planned it.
     
  2. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    yes........and why should they do more?? This situation Does potentially put China in an even more powerful position.........and they know it.
     
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  3. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Possible........ as they are expert at maneuvering the chess pieces to suit themselves.

    They might benefit the most from all this...
     
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  4. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    China is using Russia against US Economy Hemogony in SE Asia. Chinese will not intervene militarily directly. May offer credit at Chinese interest rates to purchase military hardware that is second hand, may even offer up intelligence to an extent, but not direct support. China is walking a tightrope. They know that if SWIFT is taken away from them, their foreign and economic policy of Silk Road will be in shambles and they don't want that.

    On the opposite side, Russia will also never view China as their equal either.
     
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  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    They probably didn't expect him to get to this point so quickly but it doesn't seem like he had a solid plan to begin with which one could reasonably argue is a priority when picking a fight. ;-) Xi is just an opportunist, always has been from what I've gleaned about him in various articles.

    I'm afraid he, too, is unhinged and will probably strike Taiwan by the end of the month or early next month. He's already moving things into place and making his chest-thumping threats. It's all so crazy.
     
  6. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Having one of only three nuclear superpowers by the short & curlies would be an enticing prospect.
     
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  7. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    In a few years maybe. The immediate problem for Russia is that most of the infrastructure for its oil and gas industries are orientated towards supporting the trade with Europe, the US and other destinations. Basically the opposite direction. So before it can switch over to China it basically has to do a giant plumbing job to do and needs to put in thousands of miles of new pipes. With Chinese investment that's no problem but it will take time (5-10 years?) and also makes China Russia's sole customer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
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  8. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Not sure it matters to China .........as to how Russia views it. China is primarily transnational.....
     
  9. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Because it creates problems for the US.
     
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  10. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    exactly.........and they are very "forward" and long term thinkers/ planners.
     
  11. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    China will play this smart. There is opportunity here & they don't want to mess it up. They will throw Putin some scraps, but not enough for serious consequences.

    Sure, but what Russia thinks matters less by the day. Russia needs China WAY more than China need Russia. Russians are dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds them, but that doesn't mean they will.

    They are also dumb enough to let China quietly take over as long as long as they get to pretend they are important. This seems WAY more likely.
     
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  12. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is what they like us to think (and we seem to lap it up). The reality is a lot less impressive, but you really don't need to be that 'forward' thinking to take advantage of a nation that would rather drive itself to poverty than admit that it is less important than it actually is.
     
  13. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    The fact that they are in that position now ...speaks to their long term "strategy"....

    Ok........so "forward thinking" might have been a tad optimistic ;-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
  14. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Again, I wouldn't get too carried away. If they were that good at 'strategy' they wouldn't have spent the first 30 odd years after the revolution committing mass murder, starving tens of millions & turning society inside out to keep the CCP in power.

    Being better at forward planning than Russia is like being better at bowel control than a one week old child. It doesn't even count as an achievement.

    The 'long term strategy' of the past 40 years has been to build up the ecomony & use the money to buy off the population and build up the military. If that counts as some sort of master plan then practically every Western nation of any significance has spent one to two centuries functioning at a 'strategic' level that China has yet to reach.

    I think we get too easily sucked into the idea of the 'inscrutable' oriental thinking a dozen moves ahead. Due to lack of forward planning China has created a set of problems for itself that it is going to struggle to overcome. Due the the nature of the system responsible for this 'forward planning' the flexibility required just may not be there. Western societies can seem very short termist, but they are also more agile.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
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  15. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    China never really got along with Russia. Long history of problems. China will let Russia shoot its military’s wad
    With Ukraine. They will watch and dissect Russian tactics and wait until Putin becomes desperate for help then
    They will offer help but it will be given on Chinas terms, not Russia.
     
  16. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I just got this alert in my email. With everything that's been happening I didn't even consider the pandemic over there. I wonder what their vaccination rate is and if Xi will give Putin the back-up he requested. Some here say that he can't afford the PR nightmare but he doesn't really seem like he cares what anybody else thinks anyway. I can see how it's easier to stand back and see the fallout to Russia before moving forward with them or Taiwan.


    Image8.jpg
     
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  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wish they would get it under control already. All these Chinese lockdowns are a big part of the supply chain issues causing inflation here.
     
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  18. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also, Russia is in a pretty damn good position geographically. Can't hurt the Chinese to have that on their side.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You want him to fire himself? Good luck with that. Power corrupts and Putin is now disabled with power and corruption.
     
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China

    ...

    At the heart of China’s strategy lies a conviction that the United States is weakened from reckless foreign adventures, including, from Beijing’s perspective, goading Putin into the Ukraine conflict.

    In this view, which in recent days has been echoed in public statements and quasi-official analyses, Russia’s invasion has dragged American power and attention toward Europe, making it likely that President Joe Biden, like his recent predecessors, will try but fail to put more focus on China and the broader Asia-Pacific region.

    “All the difficulties and all the balancing and all the embarrassment that we’re talking about, those are short-term,” said Yun Sun, the director of the China Program at the Stimson Center in Washington, who has studied Beijing’s actions in the lead-up to the war. “In the long run, Russia is going to be the pariah of the international community, and Russia will have no one to turn to but China.”

    ... https://news.yahoo.com/china-sees-least-one-winner-115439527.html

    The Chinese are licking their chops in anticipation of having Russia as their vassal.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now this is a sensible person .. and this is exactly China's Strategy .. Russia's as well. While the US runs around trying maintain hegemony - during the historical time in the cycle when the cost of projecting power is ridiculously expensive - the return on investment negative. China Russia - the EU - and everybody else has been playing the economic game - one we have been losing badly .. making horrible moves on the geopolitical chessboard .. because our evaluation of the position is all wrong.

    Military no longer the strongest piece on the Board "Its the Economy Stupid" -- economic considerations much stronger than Military.

    China is making out like a bandit .. "Again" .. Notice India not in the Sanctions either .. nor the UAE - El Saud - playing the economic game .. and notice it was the US that threatened China against helping Russia .. where is the EU chorus joining in ... The EU is playing the game as well .. same Strategy as China Russia . invest in economy over Military ... and when the dust settles .. EU will be positioning themselves as best they can to deal with China- India ..
     
  22. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    China will benefit from Putin's war in Ukraine. They will snap up oil and other resources at bargain basement prices. In the long run they may even gain some territory. Unfortunately, the will not get something that they have been pursuing for decades: another market for their goods. Russia will be left in an economic depression after the war ends because the economic sanctions won't. Their consumer spending, never great, will completely tank and they will be lucky to be able to feed themselves. Ukraine was a major agro exporter to Russia. Even if the war ends tomorrow, they might not be able to get the spring plantings completed, what with all the damage to their infrastructure.
    Russia will have to import food for next winter. If the current economic sanctions continue, they won't be able to pay for it.

    Maybe China will extend them credit.
    :crossbones:
     
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  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Having this invasion blow up in their faces, getting sent back to 1917 economically, and ending up dependent on China for economic subsistence is hardly Russia's strategy. I doubt China was banking on things turning out this way, either. Both expected a sequel to Crimea, not this catastrophe.
     
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  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agree that this has blown up on Russia - but think they knew it would not be like Crimea .. and that some fighting would go down .. especially given they didn't just go for the Donbass ...but the whole nation . Without knowing what Putin's main objectives are .. hard to say how well he figures things are going. I do think he got more than he bargained for .. but don't know to what degree..

    China .. Nothing has blown up in China's face .. doing nothing but benefiting - as your previous comments intimate

    over 40% of Russian Economy is Oil and Gas .. which has not much been affected .. and any short term effect will be quickly rectified selling into other markets.. very easy to replace .. and with prices over 100 dollars .. Russia making twice as much profit as it did .. so 40% is like 80%. So the reality is different than the hype .. Russia still dealing with India - China .. Still selling Gas to Europe ..

    Russia/Ukraine produce 30% of the worlds Wheat .. Ukraine may not be producing much so prices will be up .. and Russian Wheat will find a market in a hungry world.

    Don't get me wrong .. there is suffering for sure .. but what is the long game here .. and how do we avoid coming out on the short end of the stick .. "Again"

    I sang this same song when Trump was running around threatening the world with Sanctions .. at the same time having as he was having a Trade War with China .. dumb and dumber on steroids .. a war on a hundred fronts. Watching all the other nations around cashing in .. "US don't want to deal with you .. no problem .. We will" While Trump going around bashing nations over head with the biggest stick he could find "Economic Nuclear Option" . everyone else was going round making deals .. specially our friends in the EU.


    You have to learn to watch the moves man .. gotta see deeper into the position than "I won a pawn" .. sometimes that pawn is poisoned .. such as in the case of the "Sieze the Assets of Rich Oligarchs" -- which Jewish Bankers should we go after next ?

    Now maybe this is a good thing -- Rich Oligarchs been raping the world ... polluting the hell out of it in the process .. "Time to Pay" .. but you had to see that in the position to begin with ... if ya catch my drift..

    I am fine with Sanctions .. which hits businesses and so forth .. targeting the individuals in a nation .. simply on the basis of "They Got Money" and no you can't come up with a legit distinction that will not apply to the others -- cause all are dirty in many ways of the same ilk .. Anti Competitive Practice .. Corporate Cronyism integrated into bureaucracy up the yang .. damn .. we perfected the art .. Its a pay to play system...

    Now I see the owners of this Russian Restaurant being targeted in California .. Turns out one half of the Couple is Ukrainian as are all the Staff ...but .. regardless .. you know the demonization has gone a bit far .. "Freedom Fries" .. cause they did not want to join the Iraq disaster .. following same plan as Russia - China.

    but ya had to see that in the position .... prior to making the move....
     
  25. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Just in case anyone thinks China is riding to Russia's aid....sorry:

    https://www.theage.com.au/world/eur...nal-to-risk-arming-putin-20220316-p5a54j.html
     

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