Fossil Fuel industry trying to shut down electric vehicles

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Kode, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. margot3

    margot3 Active Member

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    In a lot of place the charging stations are garages with solar panels on top.
     
  2. margot3

    margot3 Active Member

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    There are MANY designs in use.

    [​IMG]
     
    Media_Truth likes this.
  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Shut up. You're offensive. I thought we were chatting but some people only come here to fulfill a psychological distortion that produces a need to argue. And that's all they want. Don't be that person. You want scientific conversation only? You wouldn't understand it.

    For all concerned, when I said 60% on cloudy days, I meant 60% of what would normally be generated on sunny days in the same location, same orientation, same panel.

    Most panels generate more power on sunny days than on cloudy ones. All that’s about to change, however, thanks to a new, organic solar panel design that is actually more efficient under cloudcover, making it perfect for those climates that, say, aren’t so sunny. - http://www.care2.com/greenliving/these-solar-panels-love-cloudy-days.html

    Yeah perdi, I know that isn't a "scientific site".
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  4. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    How do they get there?
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Well, as a conservative, I've read a lot of comments about how liberals are so superior due to their knowledge of science. I find the opposite to be true, and I make sure they know it.
     
  6. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    First, I won't shut up. If you want to ignore me, feel free. My point about that is you should look up things before making spurious claims. You should also read what you link, and have the intellectual curiouisity ot read the links they post. From a link in your article above:
    https://www.psfk.com/2014/03/solar-panel-shade-energy.html#!ANXo2
    It is impossible to produce more power from solar on a cloudy day than a sunny day. There simply isn't as much energy coming through the atmosphere. Now, these panels may get more out of the limited energy available, but they can't produce more power than they would on a sunny day. Also, these are about half as efficient as conventional solar.

    I have found sources about solar panels that work better on cloudy days than conventional panels, but that doesn't mean that they work nearly as well as they do on sunny days.

    http://www.sciencealert.com/black-s...ve-just-hit-a-record-breaking-22-1-efficiency

    I do think solar is part of our future energy production, but making crazy claims about it doesn't help the cause.
     
  7. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    It is not the real efficiency. It only shows how one SP is better than another.

    Thermodynamics is the discipline which deals with efficiency.

    The Lord of T-cs Lord Kelvin said once:

    "Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in race horses and women."

    It is all about money.

    It does not matter how “efficient” in your meaning is a SP, Sun's energy is free, coal costs money.

    You can express money in units of gold, silver or any other commodity like coal. If you calculate how much units of coal have to be burned to produce electricity from coal and how much units of coals have to be burned to produce the same amount of electricity of the same quality from SP, including production, maintenance, disposable of toxic waste and other pollution, it is obvious that you have to burn more coal=money to have electricity from SP and the pollution from SP exceeds pollution from burning coal.

    But you are correct, environmentalists cannot count and always pollute, which of course annoys us, conservatives and not so much conservatives but all caring about clean air and clean water.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  8. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Not even like it's going bankrupt? Who is going to give them the Billion plus they don't have to keep the doors open?
     
  9. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    So nice of you to enlighten us liberals. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering. I also power my house from solar and wind, using net-metering. Please off your critique of my "superior knowledge of science", and "make sure I know it", by pointing out what is wrong with my home-powering approach.
     
  10. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gov subsidies (paid for by taxpayers) for electric vehicles are being ended. Electric vehicles are being forced to compete against fossil fuel powered vehicles. That's the take away. How much will the programs in these states reduce the global atmospheric CO2 concentration rate of increase ?? How is the electrical energy used by these electric vehicles produced ??
     
  11. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More power to you. :xd: When will your investment pay off ??
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Why are you opposed to solutions and progress?
     
  13. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    This is infuriating to me. The idea of a charging station is so dumb.

    It should be a straight battery swap: low-charge for re-charged, and drive off. It would take 20 seconds. Re-charging could be continuous, day or night (ie solar and wind) regardless of whether a car was at the station or not.

    All we need to is standardise the battery storage and fitting on the car, and contractual relationship for battery damage.
     
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Have you any idea how large the battery is, how much power it packs, and how well it must be fitted and connected? Compare the cost of that labor plus the cost of avoiding battery deterioration and compare it to the cost of recharging.

    Tesla says their most powerful battery in their luxury car can be charge in about 20 minutes at 440 volts.
     
  15. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

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    The Utility doesn't like mandated Netmetering, and they are playing political games by more than tripling the Fixed Rate, without raising the Usage rate. Even with this, I believe it will pay off in less than 10 years. If they quit playing games, sooner.

    If you're implying that renewables are not cost feasible, perhaps you should tell that to Goldman-Sachs, as they are investing billions in renewables.
     
  16. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Without gov subsidies renewables are currently not cost competitive.

    What securities are Goldman Sachs investing in, what countries are the companies in, and why is Goldman making the investment ??
     
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not. Again - . How much will the programs in these states reduce the global atmospheric CO2 concentration rate of increase ?? How is the electrical energy used by these electric vehicles produced ??
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    If the right would get out of the way and allow huge infrastructure projects to shift to alternative energy sources like Germany and Denmark are doing, there would be less and less CO2 generated by power generation. AND it would create a HUGE number of good-paying jobs. -problems solved.
     
  19. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's ridiculous. Spain tried this and it turned out very badly. Their economy tanked because of high energy costs and investment in uncompetitive energy sources which had to be backed up by fossil fired generation plants. How has CO2 in terms of ppm in the atmosphere have been reduced by Germany and Denmark ??
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    LINK!!!

    And this was how many years ago that they installed solar and wind energy farms?
     
  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyone who follows this subject knows the experience that Spain has with green energy.

    IER’s study found:

    • In 2000, Spain began a new program to subsidize renewable energy with the passage of its “Promotion Plan for Renewable Energies.”
    • Spain’s feed-in tariffs have created a “rate deficit” amounting to $41 billion (about $850 per person).
    • In 2011, Spain’s domestic electricity prices (including taxes) amounted to 29.46 U.S. ¢/kilowatt-hour (kWh), nearly 2.5 times more than U.S. prices.
    • Spain’s electricity prices increased by 92 percent from 2005 to 2011.
    • Rising energy costs hit low-income Spaniards the hardest–driving them into energy poverty
    • Despite myriad renewable subsidies and mandates, Spain’s CO2 emissions increased by 34.5% from 1994-2011.

    http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/spains-green-energy-experiment/

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=spain+green+energy+disaster&*&spf=1
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    And what was that experience in a nutshell? Anyone who is actually informed knows what happened. Can you tell me since you are well informed?
     
  23. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look above.
     
  24. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't the cause of high energy prices. You have half an answer.

    "In 2015 solar power suddenly demonstrated a possible way through the impasse. The continued fall in prices for solar systems and Spain's abundant sunshine led to prices for solar power reaching grid price parity. Suddenly there was the potential for sustained and spontaneous growth in solar installations in Spain as households and producers could produce power more economically. However the Spanish government introduced what has been dubbed the world's first "sun tax" on solar installations making them economically less viable as well as draconian fines (up to 60 million Euros) for anyone not complying with the tax."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Spain
     
  25. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wikipedia ?? Who wrote that ?? That's again ridiculous. Please read a fully referenced and attributed study summary on Spain linked above and also a similar study on Germany:


    The%“energy%transformation”%is%not%just%an%engineering%problem%to%be%solved%by%experts.%It%is%also%an%


    economic%problem%that%directly%affects%German%families%and%businesses.%In%2013,%Germans%spent%

    approximately%€100%billion%($130.5%billion)%on%energy,%or%about%an%average%of%€2,500%($3,263)%per%

    household.44%In%contrast,%the%average%American%household%spent%more%than%$1,000%less%on%energy%in%

    2009.45%In%2012,%the%average%price%of%electricity%in%Germany%was%36.25%cents%per%kilowatt?hour,46%

    compared%to%only%11.9%cents%for%U.S.%households.47%


    Conclusion!


    Chancellor%Merkel’s%expanded%“energy%transformation”%plan%has%had%a%disastrous%impact%on%Germany.%

    German%families%are%suffering%from%higher%energy%bills,%Germany’s%economic%competitiveness%has%

    deteriorated,%and%one%of%the%stated%goals%of%the%plan—to%reduce%greenhouse%gas%emissions—has%

    backfired.%The%German%government’s%failed%green%energy%experiment,%like%America’s,%shows%the%

    limitations%of%energy%central%planning.%Bureaucrats%in%Berlin%or%Washington%will%never%make%wiser%energy%

    choices%than%a%free%market%driven%by%price%signals.%But%while%Germany%has%begun%to%reverse%course,%the%

    U.S.%government%continues%to%press%forward,%promoting%subsidies%and%mandates%that%have%failed%in%

    Europe%and%are%failing%in%America.%We%would%do%well%to%learn%from%Germany’s%mistakes%lest%we%repeat%

    them.%%


    http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/German-Green-Energy-Study.pdf
     

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