Fossil Fuels

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Independentmind114, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Independentmind114

    Independentmind114 New Member

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    we need a comprehensive system using solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, tidal, wave , biomass , and hydrogen sources of energy.

    we need the electricity grid to have a comprehensive overhaul ( POWER STORAGE)

    this will not happen in the u.s. i believe because there are unimaginably rich ppl in the highest of places that will fight it till the death , litteraly i believe they would be willing to polarize and make controversy over the issue till it hits a flash point.

    our current system is so unstable and use a FINITE resource. all you A***** need to think of your grand children and great grand children lets make the switch now the tech is there we could put the whole country to work making ourselves 100% independt, left to determine our own fate not relying on something we know is going to run out. Donald Trump says the U.S. cant rebound because of OPEC????!!!?? wow so lets remove the dependence on foreign oil every president for the last 50+ years has said that in state of the unions and we havent done jack.

    seriously AGW aside why wouldnt we push for a system that has a limitless (in functional respects because sun goes out - we die , tides and wave stop- something super F'd up is going on) supply ??? All we need to do is maintain a much less sprawled system once its built.

    think regional with input. coasts go massive into offshore wind , tidal , and wave. fertile land uses a hyper efficient biomass system incorperating live stock animals, areas close to desert go full solar

    and to everyone that thinks like a 7 year old and says " durrr the sun doesnt always shine and wind always blow" think outside the box seriously our entire world is built on principles of evergy transfer. Huge percentages of that energy could be stored through various mediums that are already proven and could be improved upon

    We really are asking for it how S.O.L. would we be if we lose all oil out of the middle east in 5 years because rick perry wants to pick a fight with radicals or some event that cant be forseen. And anyone who says run our cars on natural gas has problems A) because fracking is detrimental to surronding areas and B) IF YOUR GOING TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE OVERHAUL WHY NOT MAKE IT LIMITLESS AND SUSTAINABLE??? i.e. hydrogen/electric/ and Bio diesel for heavy equipment.... a 13 year old could make bio diesel with homemade equipment and readily accesible ingredients if he is slightly mechanicly inclined and has a good role model to show him the ropes.
    Investment in oil sands and coal-to-liquid fuel is pathetic! Its what the NAZIS did when they had little oil from an unstable source.

    You want an example look at the blistering break neck speed china is jumping into renewables with it makes us look pathetic. Do you really think that its because of enviromental concerns and AGW? There is a slight chance maybe but i doubt it. Its because they know fossils wont be around much longer and they will be more expensive and unstable as they run out

    If we dont get going on this fast it will be the downfall of the US fossil will be in very very short supple come 2036. we use more and more everyday as we expand. think about it we talk about % expansion of the economy everyday, that is compounded every year....it gets added onto next years expansion.

    All you FOX loving nut cases stop making this a partisan thing if you love AMERICA stop fighting renewable so much and jump on board . Your all brainwashed seriously propaganda is alive and well in america and its funded by the people who dont want to see a comprehensive energy switch. Why would the oil and power companies want to see a middle class person who buys dirt cheap , renewable fuel and powers/ heats/ cools his house with something that is totally free after an intial investment. Why in the world would the conservitive actors on fake news programs have such animosity towards an idea like this? because thats what the people who fund them want repeated every day or so

    DONT FORGET ANYTHING TO DO WITH ENERGY CHANGE OR THE ENVIRONMENT IS A LEFT WING LIBERAL CONSPIRACY TO END APPLE PIE , BASEBALL, AND YOUR 13mpg IMPORTED FUEL BURNING WAY OF LIFE :puke:
     
  2. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Methane ice (hydrate) is a renewable resource, and as we consume the easiest to melt, we reduce the methane that will offgas if the ocean warms, no matter the cause.

    As we withdraw methane, it will be replaced by dying algae. Now, that algae is offgassing methane into the environment.

    The Ford Probe, as a concept car needed only 2.5 HP to cruise at 65MPH. To take advantage of that, an engine needs a wide power band. The best way to do that is an Atkinson cycle engine with a high boost (30PSI) turbo. Methane has an octane rating of 140, much higher than race gas, very suitable for high boost.

    Utility power is roughtly 50% efficient (limited by Carnot efficiency). Install a water cooled, natural gas (methane), generator in each home. The excess heat is used to heat water and heat the house. Cogeneration can achieve 90% efficiency.

    This requires solving one problem, accessing methany hydrate in a comercially viable way. Methane ice is available off the coast almost everywhere on the planet.

    Convert as much energy generation as possible to natural gas now (which reduces CO2 compared to coal or oil), and the demand will be big enough to drive investment.
     
  3. Independentmind114

    Independentmind114 New Member

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    im not a whole very educated on methane ice so i cant really comment on that much but can i ask why the push for Gas? yes america has large shale deposits and it does have the advantage of being able to put out constant power. But - if CO2 emissions are allowed into the debate ( im assuming under the reasoning of AGW) then doing infastructure to anything that produces CO2 at all makes a whole lot less sense. If you buy into CO2 being a AGW factor then it makes more sense to go zero emissons to reduce possible climate impact because [ climate skeptics stay out of this part] The generaly accepted view is that if we dont drop emissions to nearly inconcievable amounts in the next half century were in a lot bigger mess than we will want to be in. So why make an infastructure change which does not remove that aspect?

    And all AGW issue completly removed and aside still , natural gas WILL run out and will get harder and harder to extract as we go on . so why make MASSIVE investments again for something doomed to fail eventually? a change to a renewable system removes need for overhaul down the road. Natural gas really is not the answer, only if the masses start believing that all of our CO2 can have an impact on the earth system. then hell yeah lets do quick swaps on all coal fired plants to take us through a period while we phase out carbon emissions. but as long as people who i see as truely evil make the AGW discussion something about DEM vs. REPUBLICAN through massive propaganda campaigns , and big oil puting beautiful ppl on TV saying how good their companies are for you then i know that wont happen. But to reiterate AGW completly aside its about sustainability and security how can someone be a nay sayer of that?
     
  4. Independentmind114

    Independentmind114 New Member

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    and not amused i must ask truely whats your thoughts on syn gas ( synthetic man made natural gas) do you support gas because of the drilling and industry asscociated with it? honest question
     
  5. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Methane ice is a naturally renewable resource, constantly being made by dying sea life.
     
  6. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Syngas is an energy expensive process, where oxygen is stripped from water to form hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The hydrogen is separated off and burned, then the carbon monoxide (which can't be released into the atmosphere, is then burned to form CO2), which has to be captured.

    A lot of death if there is a carbon monoxide leak (same exact weight as nitrogen (C=6, O=8 for 14, N2 = 14), at least H2 leaks shoot straight up.

    Why not burn coal and capture the CO2 directly?

    No affiliation with the energy industy.

    As I have said in 2 previous posts, natural gas goes into existing infrastructure, and is suitable for co-generation, reducing the CO2 load by a factor of 4 until we start using current methane ice, when it becomes CO2 neutral.

    Maybe we harvest dead sea life and extract methane in real time (which we know how to do from land fill) skipping complexity of methane ice.
     
  7. Independentmind114

    Independentmind114 New Member

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    Well the methane ice sounds legitimate I would have to read the journals on it, but there is no way to make that the only alternative , there can't possibly be enough and if its only coastal how can landlocked areas use this on such a large scale.. yeah true but I'm talking about removing the limited input factor in this system. What'd your thoughts on this specific point of the direction of infrastructure sustainabllity? I really must question the ice though and whats your thoughts on that being part of a comprehensive system along with the others I listed any opposition to those? Especially curious onto the reasoning of new development into that specific ice tech because if it is sustainable what merit does it have for R&D over the others?
     
  8. Poor Debater

    Poor Debater New Member

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    Well, I suppose one could say the same thing about oil, too: constantly being made by dying aglae.

    But it's clear that oil isn't being made nearly as fast as we burn it. What is the rate of methane hydrate renewal?
     
  9. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    I'm not sure, but there is currently about 2000 gigatons of methane locked in ice. About 200 years at our predicted energy usage curve.

    That it is renewable is actually a secondary benefit, as is the fact that methane ice is an energy source.

    If the oceans warm enough (no matter the cause) to start melting it, the released methane (30 times the green house gas as CO2) increases global temperatures, melting more - positive feedback. Best guess (from the past global extinction events), global temps rise 5 degrees F in an enviromental blink of an eye.
     

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