France: 25 protesters lose eyes, 5 lose hands

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by kazenatsu, Apr 24, 2022.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://factcheck.afp.com/life-after-losing-eye-french-protests

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/v...jaunes-protesters-mutilated-by-police-weapons

    So far 25 protesters in France have lost an eye, as a result of police firing rubber bullets into crowds.
    5 protesters have lost their hands from flash grenades thrown by police.

    Most of these protesters are "yellow vest members", protesting over economic difficulties. Many complain they can barely afford to get by, with high costs of living and limited job opportunities.

    The protesters were behaving relatively peacefully, but the police had ordered the crowd to disperse. Some people who were walking by and who were not part of the protesters have also been injured.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  2. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    :roflol::roflol:
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, to be totally fair, the ones who got their hands blown off were trying to throw back the tear gas grenades police had launched at them. Except what they picked up turned out to be a flash grenade. Likely some of the individual police may have done this on purpose, specifically and intentionally throwing a flash grenade knowing that there were protesters in the crowd picking up and tossing back the tear gas grenades police had launched at them.

    I still don't think it's fair to say these protesters "deserved" what happened to them.
     
  4. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...no but they go there with the fair expectation that there will be protesters intent on violence, and that should they be in the middle of it, then they should understand that sometimes its reciprocated....this is probably in the realms "what goes around comes around" therefore one of life's little learning experiences...:)
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to be presuming that the French police had adequate reason to throw tear gas and flash grenades into the crowd.

    Did it ever occur to you that maybe they wanted the crowd to disperse, and that was before the crowd showed any indication of being violent?
    That maybe some members of the crowd only pushed back after police tried to push them out.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    of course I am....isn't that what they do.....?
     
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This might help you to realise how absurd your position is.
    Imagine if the members of the crowd had ordered the police forces to move away. They of course do not. Then some members of the crowd, armed with brooms and trash lids, begin to try to physically push the police away. Of course some police in the group of police fight back. Then, in response, the crowd launches grenades into the group of police, even though the majority of those police were not doing anything and had just been standing around the whole time.

    Would you honestly try to argue that if one of those police get their eye shot out by a rubber bullet, they "should have expected it"? That they don't deserve much sympathy at all "because they were there"

    I am not being "pro-police" or "anti-police" here. Nor am I even necessarily supporting these protesters here, or justifying everything they did.

    The easiest of human emotions is apathy.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  8. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...no....not really....for some odd reason you're just being deliberately naive....when the tear gas is deployed isn't this more usually the case....

    upload_2022-5-20_12-2-25.png upload_2022-5-20_12-7-7.png

    ...anyway....I've said my bit......you can have the last word as I'm not sure your bubble is able to take the harsh realities of being an activist protester in France.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  9. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The police in France have always had even more authority and power than in the U.S. Every French person knows that. We don't have to agree that a fact is right to agree that it is in practice. When the French police tell people to disperse, it is not a joke.
    At least they weren't like the National Guard at Kent State.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Still, don't you think it's a dirty trick to be tossing flash grenades into the crowd, knowing that some people in the crowd will be picking them up thinking they are tear gas grenades?
     
  11. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The "Gilets jaunes" had many valid complaints. French society, as with most societies, has unfair distribution of power in some ways. Overall, France is one of the better places to live. Most French realize this. The way the "Yellow jackets" conducted themselves, especially at the Arc de Triomphe, was unacceptable. Hooligans also took advantage of demonstrations to vandalize and rob. One of the problems of democracy is that peaceful assembly for redress of grievances is one thing and government by representative legislation is another. Between the tail wagging the dog and the majority oppressing the minority, balance is not always easy.
     
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  12. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    A bunch of socialists violently protesting against the socialism they voted for.

    Cry me a river.
     
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These are the same people that were trying to say tear gas used against them was against the Geneva Convention.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's the French way. Also saw the same thing in Greece. They were rioting in the streets when their Socialist government finally ran out of money and had to start paying off the debt.


    Keep in mind not all of these yellow vest protesters are Leftist. A few of them are just protesting against general decline of living in France, increases in cost of living, and aren't really advocating any particular specific policy changes. Others are complaining about all the excessive laws and regulations infringing on individual liberties and stifling business. The yellow vests themselves stem from a hated law the French government passed that requires all drivers to keep a yellow vest in their car for emergencies. It was seen by many French as excessive, an example of yet another stupid law that was not needed.


    It's difficult in France because people are being pushed out of the Paris region due to housing prices (caused by overcrowding and population growth due to immigration). Unfortunately in France, all the job opportunities are concentrated in the Paris region. It can be challenging for someone to make a decent middle class life for themselves in another part of France.

    In France, however, most of the people will refuse to blame immigration and overcrowding, instead will demand that the government "do something" about it, or spend more money to solve the problem, pay people more money.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  15. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Those under the impression that the "Yellow Jackets" are 'leftist' are apparently misinformed.
     
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  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    As I understood it the protests were over tax rises on fuel.
    Basic right wing stuff.
     
  17. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    It started out as that, but it was quickly taken over by socialists screaming and crying about the hardships the socialism they voted for has caused, while simultaneously demanding more socialism-

    EhsY4GCWoAAgkm5.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It's Europe so the government is the owner and all of the people are property.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Liberty is right wing stuff? Not being a sugar daddy for the government it's right wing who and their right mind would ever be left wing if that's the case you want to be a subject why?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  20. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Binary thinking renders understanding impossible.
     
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  21. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so liberals love high costs?

    It looks like socialist to me
     
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wouldn't that be ironic. They want the government to spend more money, but they don't want tax increases.

    Or the protests started with protesters complaining about government increasing taxes and how life was difficult, but the protests got taken over by protesters complaining that government was not spending enough money and how life was difficult.
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the vast majority of people are just stupid and it is unbelievably difficult for them to be able to think of things that are not in simple black and white simple concepts.

    The population will just riot and protest and complain against the government, all the time they will not really know what the government should do, nor will the rioting mob even be able to agree on what the government should do.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  24. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Humankind has to pass beyond the cycles of chaos and tyranny if it is to have a future. People can only express a choice if they know how to select one. Democratic processes depend upon intelligent and informed participants in order to function well. That being historically the exception and authoritarianism usually the result, something new must be found. The lessons of history unlearned are repeated.
     
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  25. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has nothing to do with right wind or left wing, the demonstration were mixed politically. People revolted over tax rises on fuel because for many of them it just makes life unbearable when they have to use a lot the car, that's why the whole movement started in suburb cities/countryside, even if the big demonstrations were in Paris. There is nothing "right" or "left" wing to prostest when your life cost is too high. That's kind of upper class left wing way of thinking.
     
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