France maintains hardline stance on no-deal Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/05/france-maintains-hardline-stance-on-no-deal-brexit


France doesn't feel like the EU should give the UK extensions willy nilly.

I hope France or some country in the EU vetos any extension, and that there could be no deal Brexit on April 12th.

It's already a week since March 29th; just let the UK go.

Get a new PM who will deliver no deal Brexit if need be, I think the PM should face another vote of no confidence. She's a Remainer keeping the UK close to the EU.

 

Brexit as fast as possible!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47833702
UK Passports Issued without European Union on them est 30th March 2019...

'They're still red'
'UK's still in the EU'.

 

Better today than tomorrow.

 

In meantime I want to have these silly Brits out of the EU at all costs. They are simply not worth to be a member and to get any sweets from the EU.

 

"France". You mean Emmanuel Macron. A lot of french people are tired with Macron, the globalists and the EU despite the mass propaganda in favour of the EU.

 

But certainly not the French farmers and many others who have their job only due to the EU safe (even many didn't know it) ....

 

Not really. French farmers tend to vote for Marine Le Pen and have very high suicide rate, one of the highest of France. They paid a very heavy price in all the free trade policies. Despite they feed the country, they're one of the less considered people of the country.

 

Interestimng ... did someomne tell them how much of their income is only existing due to the EU and that without the EU, they would face a so hard competition with the free market, that they can hang up?

 

They absolutly know that, but the prices of sell of their products are so low that most of them can barely live and depend entirely of those subvention. A lot of people end with less than 800 euros to live. For a quick reminder the minimum salary in France is of around 1100 euros after taxes. The situation is extremly unequal, some wheat producer live in a very comfortable way, and livestock farmer rather poor.
Furthermore, a lot of people remain stick to the familial exploitations.
To that we can add that they have compete with country that can work for less money, but aren't bounded to as much regulations considering animal well being, less ecological norm and have globally much less legal, bureaucratic problems.

I don't want France to become a country like germany or UK which depend on importations to feed themselves. Food autonomy is a core value for a country, I don't worship GDP growth. (In fact, I think that France could benefit to be a little bit more poor on some points.)
Unfortunatly, France isn't even indenpendant from a food point of view, because we rely on oil (for machinery and ), phosphate and fertilizer.

To be able to reach a sane and autonomous supply of food would be a reason alone to leave EU. It's impossible inside the EU.

 

TBH, I weep for Paris.

If I don't see camps of people in Paris who's refugees and migrants from outside of the EU, it's Yellow vests every Saturday.

Bro', I'm in London, with a Brexit Crises, but even I sympathise with France wondering what's going on down there, because, as bad as it might seem here, seems worse down there on the news.

So much so, from camps of people living in the street to now the yellow vests, I don't think Paris is a safe place to visit anymore, which is a shame IMO.

 

And you think this is the fault of the EU? OK ... lets cancel the EU funds for them and lets face them full economic cold of the world without EU protection. OK?

 

It's not the problem of EU, but EU is the representant of "open-door" economy, and I blame that kind of economic policy for many nowoday problems.

 

Open door ... to where? To agricultiure issues from other EU members or to those from outside?

The problem is that the EU financed with their funding an abundance which hurts the prices ... which must be prevented by the EU again for not becoming the final killshot for the farmers. We call this in my country a devils circle! And low prices for the products are again the will of majority of population = consumer in the EU.... However, you have to relativise realistically, because a certain higher price for milk, vegetables, meat & Co. are most willing to pay in favor of the farmers ... but only up to a limit of "?" and not more, because then again burdened the cost of living too much!
But then again we have the food corporations like Nestle who wants to dominate the low price agriculture, but also the huge supermarket chains and corporations, which with "stinginess is great" for every penny more in the purchase argue!

You see ... very complicated issue, but I agree that the EU has to do here something to solve this madness!

 

I think that we embraced economical growth to madness. Money became the god of our society. Sudden explosion of population can be followed by sudden collapse of population, I wouldn't be surprized there is an almost total collapse of economy in the 50 next years. That's why I favour autonomy.

 

Forget it, people like Macron and Germany seem to think the EU can do no wrong, so it's like arguing with a brick wall, it's pointless because it can't listen.

We of course know they're wrong, but, these people think the EU is God's gift to the world/best thing since sliced bread; Nothing can be further from the truth, and this open door policy is just one problem with the EU, it's called Free Trade, and it takes Fair Trade away from us and also saturates our Labour Markets.

 

50 years, 5 more likely if we are still here. Not liking the economic system is not a reason which makes it necessary to leave the EU. You could instead work to change it within the EU. The genuine Refugees are a direct response to US/UK/France's foreign Policy - ie the intent to destroy the middle east.

 

Every media is pro EU, every children is risen in the idea that EU is good, and if you're against EU that would bring back world and fascism.

EU use noble intentions (peace, friendship between people) for economic agenda.

I would compare that to the relation to a woman or a man.
There is things in relationships thing you should never accept. There is delusionnal women which think they could change a toxic man, there is delusionnal men which accept everything from a toxic woman.
There is however lines that should never been crossed. If a man hit a woman, a woman should leave immediatly and not thing "I should stay and change him", if a woman humiliate a man, that man shouldn't think that he should stay because his attitude was wrong and that's why he was humiliated.

That does representant two toxic relationship to EU : people which think that they could change that abusive union and people which think that if everything go wrong, it's not the EU which went wrong, it's obviously their policies.

For me the line has already been crossed in 2007 when EU and N.Sarkozy imposed to the ffrench people a treaty they refused. The french people commited a fault there by not getting Sarkozy and judging him for high treason.

There is flawed men or women that you can hope to change, there is abusive men or women that you should leave immediatly for your own sake.
There is flawed unions you can change, and there is abusive union like EU you should leave for your own sake, even if it mean you to live on a couch for a few weeks and so your econical situation to suffer.

 

The EU is made up of countries who in history are our enemies traditionally and it's selling us this illusion of trading with enemies to make us friends.
Trade deals should be between countries who already are friends, instead of between countries who aren't friends in the hopes that they become friends.

The failed EU tried this, and will probably fall after Brexit unless the EU tightens its grip on the EU27 to save itself.

 

Yes and no.

What's happening today is a trade war. It's not a war where we fight for piece of lands with bullets, but where companies and countries fight for piece of market with prices.
There were something sure after WW1 and WW2, there were a necessity to build peace. But I think it should be done through student exchange, not trade deal.

 

Would you as a French citizen be opposed to France exiting the EU for a trade deal with America and or UK too?

I forget where in France you are, but I'm London and grew up London.
I remember seeing the odd Concorde in the sky as a child.
Did you ever see one of those in France?

 

Absolutely not. That is as crazy as Thatcher comparing a Nations spending to a families weekly budget.

That is because you have chosen to compare two things which are not alike. The EU can be changed. That is what Diem 25 is working on and it possibly is also what the far right are working on. Voting for who you want to represent yourself in Parliament is not the same as choosing a mate. Whoever gave you that analogy was trying to fool you.

OK this is a bit too extreme for me. It is really past the point of discussion. I do know that one of the main reasons the EU came into being was to keep Europe from engaging in wars which resulted in the deaths of millions of people. There may also have been a capitalist component and that can be changed by choice and work. Keeping Europe from war may be more difficult. There are already some of The English creating a unhealthy hate response towards Germany that has already got some wondering if the UK leaving the EU could be the start of inter Europe hatred and more killing of millions. We are in very much the same situation as we were prior to WW2. We have a depression/recession which Europe has not recovered from, we have a situation where people do not trust their political elites. we have people complaining about Globalisation, we have a massive number of refugees who new political movements/parties are trying to get people to blame and hence divert their anger which has substance towards the failing economic system instead onto the other - at great danger to their well being. We have seen it all before. To act in the same way as last time obviously illustrates no appreciation of history and to be frank would suggest people very vulnerable to manipulation. You have said you had some connection to Buddhism so you will know that the Buddha said we create our own world. We have. If we want change we also have the possibility of doing that creatively respecting everyone. Or we can turn the other way and go back to killing millions of innocents. Given how near we are to extinction catastrophe and how much more likely that is to result in more wars which themselves will make extinction all the more likely, I would suggest we need to think in a less selfish and more constructive manner. It is a free choice and the consequenses will be a result of that choice.

 

Nobody gave me that analogy, I'm grown up enough to find my own analogies. I'm not sure there is a lot of debate, you believe that EU can be changed, I don't believe so. I'm not sure either of us can prove our point. I don't even believe in the ability of french democracy to change.
About Diem25, I was on the french website of that, that's very blurry. They have noble intentions, excepted all the "refugee welcome" crap, good goals, the problem is that having good goals isn't enough.

And that's where your partly wrong. That obsession with WW2 make you forget things. Before WW2, there were plenty of oil availaible, now we consummed more than the half. Ecological transition won't happen. Why ? Because when there is a new source of energy, we start to consume more energy, we doesn't replace a part of our oil consumption. What does it mean in a concrete way ? That when oil will become rare, our economy will collapse in a very brutal way. That magical energy that will replace oil, coal combined that science is supposed to find doesn't exist. Even if did exist, if it cost 3 time more than oil and/or coal, it wouldn be enough.
Furthermore, war drastically changed since WW2 and they won't be any WW2 style war. Now countries use civil war in other countries to solve their problem, and it could absolutly happen in Europe.

Our economical system is based on non renewable energies and consumerism. If you think that our system is in crisis, it's just a prelude to something much more violent. If you can get a place where you can grow some vegetables, get one or two chicken and some ways to purify water, it can be better aswell to have some basic ways to heal yourself.

About the partis that are blaming the refugees, recently in France, there were two young people murdered, a boy and a girl. The girl was raped before being murdered. The murderer was someone which commited rape a few years ago, he wasn't french and came from a subsaharian africa. He was sentenced to 7 years of prison if I remember well, spend something like 3 years, and despite he had to be expelled, he wasn't. Result, two people died, and a family would have to live their whole life with the idea that their girl lived hell before being murdered. "Strangly" they were both native french people, it's quite strange how much that kind of people are often the victims and not the perpetrator. At the end of the year, a man of algerian origin shot at people on a christmas market, he was 29, was arrested 27 times. In 2018, two girls were slaughtered with a machete by an illegal tunisian, he was arrested for theft a little sooner and released.

Why do I tell you those horrible stories ? Because there is thousand and thousand of that kind of stories. And like it or not, it's often a cultural enrichment which is the perpetrator and a native that is the victim. There is a lot of people which are tired of those daily injustice. And all that angriness cumulate, especially because there is some leftist which call those people who hope for justice "fascist".
Recently, they arrested a muslim which was planning a shooting against a kindergarden. That could have started a civil war, that's often how civil war start. So when I says that if we should prevent refugee to drown, we should still deport them, I'm not mean, I'm protecting them.
Even amnesty international that isn't really a right winged organization compained of the impunity about rape in scandinavian countries.

History doesn't start in 1933 and end in 1945. There is something we can learn from history too : when you try to make different population to coexist, it tend to end in a bad way. Does it prevented people to organize mass migration ? No. Because they wanted migrants to boast themselve to be "diverse" and "multicultural". Furthermore, someone could says that we can learn from history that radical left always led to disasters.
There is other things we can learn of History. Late french nobility commited a lot libertinism aswell late roman empire. Very sophisticated societies based on libertinism tend to collapse in favour of more conservative population.

Do you think the native european populations are respected in that process ? Yes, the developpement of Africa is vital for the world and europe. Helping the developpement of Africa by funding universities, yes, accepting mass migration, no.

I don't think you understand. From my point of view, it's mass migration that would lead to war. I never said we shouldn't help Africa, I never said that there would be the need of drastic technological sharing if we want things to go better and so prevent some huge companies to monopolize some technologies and knowledge.

 

"Brexit: Theresa May to meet Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron"

What are the bastards cooking up now??? She's obviously more focussed on pleasing them than looking after our interests, and get this . . . we're paying her effing salaries? This is so surreal I can't believe it's happening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47861605

 

My compliments on an excellent post, and thank you for it.