Freedom of speech costs something.

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Overitall, Feb 11, 2021.

?

Is Gino Carano right?

Poll closed Mar 13, 2021.
  1. Yes

    87.5%
  2. No

    12.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There has been much discussions/reports about freedom of speech and when and on what platform it is allowed. I realize and acknowledge that private businesses have a right to control content on their sites (although to what degree is debatable) so I don’t think any arguments concerning that aspect is necessary here.

    The quote below is what Gino Carano made which apparently cost her employment on a popular show. And perhaps will threaten any future opportunities. This reminds me of the McCarthy days of black listing where actors were not allowed to have jobs because of their political positions. It seems that Hollywood has forgotten the lessons of that period.

    Anyways the comments sited below seem to an accurate reflection of history which only begs the question, is she right in the way in which she is applying it to today’s environment.

    The poll options are two.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gina-carano-dropped-mandalorian-abhorrent-023950226.html
     
  2. Hey Nonny Mouse

    Hey Nonny Mouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't think she should have been fired. She's entitled to her opinion, right or wrong.

    I don't know exactly what her claim is here. She's wrong about history being edited and right that it's bad to hate people for their political views. The analogy with Jews seems weak.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  3. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for replying.

    Even as weak as her analogy might have been it was enough to cost her a good job. It had enough of a backlash that the studio felt their bottom line (profits) were jeopardized.

    History is written from a bias slant. I doubt the Japanese history books would reflect that they were the aggressors in WWII. Although I concede I haven’t read any of them. Yet even in our history books the degree to which Native Americans were abused is not accurately written in most school books. So, perhaps that’s what she meant by editing history.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  4. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I posted about this months ago. http://www.politicalforum.com/index...al-over-anti-mask-and-voter-fraud-twe.581580/

    I disagree with the movement to have her removed from the show. I thought her character was one of the better original characters on the show and it was refreshing to see Hollywood cast a kickass woman that can really fight and does not weight 90 lbs, (cough Ruby Rose). That said, I see nothing wrong with the movement to have her removed. Our society allows people to state their beliefs as long as it is legal but speech has its consequences. If she says things that upset the fans and could potentially cause the show to loose its audience the show is well within its rights to remove her. Private business must be allowed to protect their interest as long as they follow legal dismissal laws. She can go on stating her belief but she must understand that could also have impact on her future employment.
     
  5. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My apology. I, perhaps, should have done more reviewing before jumping in with a thread of my own.

    Although McCarthyism happened a log time ago, it’s ramifications continue to be heard today. We live, however, in a different time where the lessons of history are ignored. The government protects individuals on the basis of race, sex, age, and handicaps. (I may have missed one or two). Perhaps political ideology should be added to the list where companies are prohibited from discriminating on.

    Thanks for your reply.
     
    CharisRose and LoneStarGal like this.
  6. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Even if political ideology if added it simply means companies cannot discriminate base on which political party you belong too or identify with. Speech is still different. It is like you cannot discriminate against someone due to their race but if someone in the workplace was very outspoken about their race and said things that could be deemed offensive to others in the workplace about race they can be fired. So in this case she could not be fire for her political affiliation but she still could be fired if she said things that are harmful to the company.
     
  7. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    13,694
    Likes Received:
    9,416
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It wasn't just one posting, it was the culmination of her posts throughout 2020.
     
  8. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course there is a distinction between what you can say or do in the workplace. People are hired to perform a service and when or if there is impediment to an efficient operation an employer has every right to expect you to curtail that behavior/speech. Here, however, we are speaking of what is said outside the place of employment. To make a fair analogy it would be, imo, similar to not hiring someone because of the color of their skin or because of what they believe. Neither would affect the job you would be expected to perform.

    By ideology I don’t necessarily restrict that to political party. There can be overlapping of ideology between or among political parties. Ideology pertains to beliefs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    CharisRose likes this.
  9. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    16,389
    Likes Received:
    12,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If that's the case perhaps you can point out the most egregious ones? Because I know nothing about her and haven't watched the show she's on. The one pointed out in the OP certainly doesn't seem to be even slightly egregious. It's actually quite factual.
     
    CharisRose and Overitall like this.
  10. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That may be but the article I posted only cited one quote that led to her firing. If there were others equally offensive I wouldn’t know why they would wait so long to fire her.

    Thanks for your reply.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    16,389
    Likes Received:
    12,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not necessarily disagreeing here but too often companies listen to a minority of people that happen to be speaking the loudest. Most people don't care about politics and probably don't even know that Joe Blow tweeted something that some people found offensive. Hell, they probably wouldn't, and still, and never will know about what Carano said.
     
  12. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    13,694
    Likes Received:
    9,416
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I never heard of her before today either. It's in the OP's link.
     
  13. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Most probably won’t but now that it’s in the news stream and because of the popularity of the show many more will know about it.

    This sorta reminds me of The New York Post article on Hunter Biden being removed from social platforms. Because they did that more people became aware of the story they were reporting because that became the story in itself.

    Thanks for posting.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  14. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    16,389
    Likes Received:
    12,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually thinking about it a bit I can see how what she said could be offensive. It's offensive to those that support cancel culture. They're usually the ones calling those that they want canceled the Nazi's. The truth of what she stated put them on par with Nazi supporters. A footing that they are not used to being placed in. And they're pissed at, in their mind, being called Nazi's. I find that rather funny. And fitting.
     
  15. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What people say outside the workplace has to be consider too. Lets assume you work for a organization. You are a model manager in the workplace but after work you lead a white supremacist group and post online articles and videos promoting the how other racial groups are less intelligent and lazy. None of these things are against the law. Employees in your workplace are uncomfortable with what this person does in their off hours and worry that they can be treated unfairly due to their race. Customers are offending with your employee and start finding alternative business to deal with. Should the company be allow to fire this employee or should they just accept the fact that other good employee may leave and the business will lose customers?
     
  16. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you. I was hoping we could shift back to what she actually said rather then if she deserved to be fire for saying it.

    You bring out a good point. No one likes to be called a Nazi, anymore than being called a racist.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  17. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That does present a conundrum for the businessman. I can see that but at the same time I see where we live in a cancel culture environment where even students in colleges are demanding a safe zone where opinions they don’t like are forbidden. Once we start down this path where does it end? I would like to tell employers to grow a spine and stand up for freedom of speech but then they have only one objective; making a buck for the stockholders.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  18. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In Gina case many fans including myself spoke up on reddit and fan sites to defend her. Other stars of the show including Pedro Pascal also came to her defense. It seemed like a vocal minority at the time and I never thought Disney would fire her. Also her characters return for the season finale after the initial outcry to fire her. I am guessing since this story line has kind of ended they just might be moving to a new direction next season which may not have to include her character.
     
  19. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I think they were actually in the process of a spin-off starring her.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  20. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMHO cancel culture is nothing new. It has always existed. From Copernicus and Galileo who were jailed or excommunicated for their beliefs to Donald Trump wanting to boycott Goodyear Tire. The primary difference is social media has made the concept of cancel culture easier and more powerful. This is not because cancel culture is a modern idea it is simply technology has made it so much more effective.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
  21. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am not 100% sure what series that would be. I am assuming that she could have been in Rangers of the New Republic but I don't think that one is in production yet. The Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka which are the new upcoming series will have to come first and if she was on either of those series it was be as a guess star in a story arc.
     
  22. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I like her as an actress, and I wish she weren't fired by Disney, but her Nazi comparisons are idiotic.
     
  23. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Quite true that throughout history the voice of the people has been under attack by both governments and even among the governed. Resistance to those attacks are also widely dispersed throughout history as well. We are now faced with a new opponent to free speech - social platforms and the media (which were historically the protectors of free speech and upon which the 1st Amendment rests). The deck seems to be stacked against those who are among the minority (which the Republicans actually are among but only by a slim margin). New efforts are afoot to make it costly to even acknowledge being a Republican. New efforts are afoot even to create a new party separated from that party. But I digress.

    What Gino said is something to evaluate on its own merits. Are we actually seeing evidence of what she expresses? I voted yes.
     
    CharisRose likes this.
  24. Overitall

    Overitall Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2021
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    11,542
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Idiotic speech can be corrected by more speech. Firing her has the effect of saying shut up. I say that because if a person knows they can lose their job because of what they say they are likely to shut up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    CharisRose and Hey Nonny Mouse like this.
  25. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 1st Amendment does not grant you immunity from folks severing ties with you for what you say. The right to sever such ties are covered by Constitutional rights. I'd rather they didn't but her Constitutional rights have not been violated, whereas preventing Disney from severing ties with her, or any social media company from severing ties with her, would emphatically be a violation of rights. I wish they hadn't, but they were within their rights to do so, and hers haven't been violated.

    Comparing people to Nazis for exercising their right to free association is completely idiotic and is a slap in the fact to anyone who either lived through WWII or who has passed their Junior High history classes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    Hey Nonny Mouse likes this.

Share This Page