French sub Saphir drowned american aircarrier on training mission

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Yazverg, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-floride+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ru&lr=lang_en

    A sub that was made in 1979 was taking part in training with american colleagues. Firstly it participated in collaboration with americans and later it received a training command to penetrate the aircarrier group and attack the carrier. Mission was succesfully accomplished...

    The news however was erased from the official web site and is now available only in cache...

    What do I want to say about it... Today 2 things drowned. The lie about invincibility of american technology. And the lie about freedom of speech. That is good to know before trusting the hawks to start making projects and coups far away from the native shores. Perhaps it is not as safe as politicans might think.
     
  2. f_socialism

    f_socialism New Member

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    Who stated that American technology is invincible?
     
  3. JIMV

    JIMV Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I was in the service, about the time the French sub was built, we used to practice submarine attacks against the force routinely and now and again the sub wins...Carriers are not invincible, they are 75 year old idea. The idea remains valid, air superiority over projected force and we are the only ones who can do it seriously over a long period. That does not mean carriers cannot be lost.

    The real question is, what would you rather be in, a force with carriers or one without?
     
  4. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    Probably a diesel electric sub as they are hard to detect without active pinging. Which during a combat situation, there would be in a Carrier battle group.

    But go right ahead and pump yourself up. American technology is not invincible, but it's far superior to that junk the Russians trot out.
     
  5. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    This very sub is the very first generation of french nuclear subs...

    It makes me remembering the old soviet S-125 anti-air missiles shooting down a stealth...
     
  6. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Without air superiority it's impossible to run land operations in such countries as Iraq or Libya. Carriers truely deserve the pride of fleet of th US. It's a high-tech and key element of the navy and military, which still represent a presence of US far away from its borders. But no super weapon is faultless. Unfrotunately it seems that Bush the third and Clinton the second don't want to face the reality and pretend to play the game with the rules they like. That is far more risky for the globe which is quite fragile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    AboveAlpha said something like that.
     
  7. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Theodore Roosevelt has been sank, and we find out about it from PF blogger... off to watch the FOX, maybe they know something about
     
  8. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    You mean like the Stingers that drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan and caused the break up of the Soviet Union?
     
  9. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Good try. But the decision of soviet troops to move out was made not because of Osama armed with stingers. :) Soviet army controlled Afghanistan quite well and if not the american influence their people would have the agriculture and industry developed enough in order to have a state. The decision was political.

    But yes. :) I have to admit that american rockets in the hands of Al Quayeda increased the losses of soviet helicopters quite dramatically.
     
  10. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    And note, that the french having achieved a good result in the training of military had to order their freedom of speech to moe a little bit aside... :) It seems that american political influence over EU greatly exceeds their military capabilities. So it is only a matter of time that the politicians with a steering wheel on their heads give way to a new generation of politicans who would protect national interests of their people and their states. Something makes me thinking that the newly revorn countries would regard US exactly the same way as former soviet republics regard Russia for the moment... Now that would be an irony of the millenium!
     
  11. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, I was being sarcastic. I'm sure the Theodore with her 5,000 crew is just fine and is cruising somewhere as we speak.
     
  12. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Stop feeding the trolls guys.

    As to he thread it's like what they say in pugilism, "Everyone has a punchers chance".
     
  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are those who say, "If it works, it must be obsolete."

    There are those younger types both in the military and in the civilian world who believe if it's new, it must be better. You see those proclaiming that pilots will soon be obsolete, that wars will be fought with UAV's (drones) and robots. But Russia has already defeated our UAV's by jamming the airwaves.

    Just recently the Russians defeated the U.S. Navy's AEGIS weapons system in the Black Sea literally scaring the crap out of our sailors and diapers had to handed out to navy crews. I (*)(*)(*)(*) you not.

    Even our allies have been saying that the U.S. military has become to dependent on technology that if they lose that technology in combat, they can no longer fight.

    Even the internet has dumbed down America and the world. If it's on the internet, it must be true. Using Wikipedia as a credible source. :roflol: People are so lazy they don't read Wikis disclaimer and warnings.
    USE WIKIPEDIA AT YOUR OWN RISK
    PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ANY INFORMATION YOU MAY FIND IN WIKIPEDIA MAY BE INACCURATE, MISLEADING, DANGEROUS, ADDICTIVE, UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Risk_disclaimer

    I'm an old old schooled Marine, keep it dumb, stupid and simple.

    FYI: The best CAS aircraft ever to fly isn't the A-10 Warthog but the piston powered propeller driven Douglas A-1 Skyraider. Try telling some young soldier or airman that. (*)(*)(*)(*), there are some young American soldiers who think the M-4 carbine is the best thing since sliced bread. If the M-16 and M-4 are the only weapons you are familiar with, you might think that way.
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you mean this junk?

    [video=youtube;ij3Ig5fNCOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij3Ig5fNCOg[/video]
     
  15. Sly Lampost

    Sly Lampost New Member

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    I can't disagree with that. It is often worth clicking on the "View History" tab of a wiki page to observe the battles that go on between "contributors" to the page just to see how much time and effort some people put into ensuring their version of events is the one that the Wiki pages publishes. A dispassionate observer might be forgiven for thinking some of these contributors are on a full time payroll and this this is their job? An example HERE...
     
  16. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    FOX news wont give you true info but it will entertain you...as they themselves say.

     
  17. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well I've been watching FOX waiting for the entertaining news on the Theodore sinking, not finding any. What does it tells you? Ah yes, FOX must be hiding these news from us!
     
  18. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    As for I know, during training operations and simulations of war scenarios, also Australian and Italian subs [so not nuclear submarines, but electric - diesel submarines] were able to defeat US units as well.

    For example the Italian U212 was able to take a periscope photograph of USS Theodore Roosevelt, arriving enough near to destroy it ...

    It's obvious that taking a look at the contrary statistics ... US Navy has destroyed the entire Australian and Italian fleets a dozen of times [!!!], so ...

    In any case, I agree about carrier being an obsolete concept: they cannot be really stealth in the most proper and efficient way [just because of their physical configuration and functionality, stealth features of modern carriers are anyway limited, an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier].

    A well better solution would be a submarine carrier [that would be well more stealth!], and this solution [used in WW II when some U-boats carried planes] has already showed some results. But of course a matter is to put a plane in a sub, an other matter is to build an entire submarine carrier! So far I'm not aware of serious projects.
     
  19. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    probably wasn't entertaining enough.

     
  20. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    Yes, junk exactly like that. Even the older F14 Tomcat or F15 Eagle could probably take that heap down. No need to bring out the new stuff.
     
  21. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The cost would be a factor for anyone other than Washington where they're gratified by their dollar printing machines. Technology though is a different factor. Russia has the tech and the raw materials, but not the trillions needed, so it compensates with lesser and much more efficient arms.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're funny! :lol:
     
  23. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "The unique combat characteristics of the Su-30, at once made it possible for the Indian pilots to confidently defeat their rivals in the sky. In 2004, during the Cope India Indian-American drills, Indian pilots on the Su-30 jets won 90% of the battles against the Americans on the F-15. In an interview with USA Today, General Hal Homburg, the chief of Air Combat Command, admitted the shocking results of mock fighting saying “Russian technology in Indian hands has given the U.S. Air Force a “wake-up call.”
    Indian pilots on the Su-30 achieved equally impressive victories in the consecutive years, for one, in 2004, during the Sindex-2004 exercises against F-16 jets of the Singapore Air Force. In 2005, The French pilots on the Mirage-2000S, Mirage-2000-5 and Mirage-2000N failed to cope with the task of Su-30 fighters led by Indian pilots during the Garuda-II exercises. British pilots on Tornado F.Mk.3 suffered a defeat from Indians during the Dhanush-2006 exercises and requested to allow them to fly on the Su-30 MKI. They admitted that the Russian fighter jet significantly surpasses their planes in combat capabilities.

    In 2008, after the release of the results of the American-French-Indian Red Flag exercises, British aviation magazine Flight described the SU-MKI as the best fighter jet which is superior to F-22, the fifth generation American jet.

    Such an obvious demonstration of superiority of the Russian Su-30 has prompted many countries to choose this plane. At present, Russia is supplying these jets to Algeria, Venezuela, Malaysia, China and Indonesia.

    http://in.sputniknews.com/indian.ruvr.ru/2014_07_31/Su-30-MKI-the-best-in-class/

    When russkies are sober, they can actually make some neat stuff.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Political, as are all decisions made by government, especially when getting defeated.
     
  25. milorafferty

    milorafferty Banned

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    Sure, sure, of course.

    I was actually in the U. S. Army during the Cold War in the late 70's to mid 1980's. All we heard about was how "great and powerful" the soviet military equipment was. It all proved to be a bunch of huey and bluster. Our stuff was better then and it's MUCH better now. And you still have the same crude, poorly designed, poorly built, poorly maintained junk that you have always had. The last time the Russians produced anything noteworthy was the T-34 tank in WW II
     

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