FYI: Navy Lasers, Railgun, and Hypervelocity Projectile: Background and Issues

The CIA contractor security team said all they needed was just a ten second diversion and no Americans would have been killed.

The 5"/54 popgun has laser guided projectiles. The CIA contractors had laser target designaters and lit up the terrorist mortars position and waited and waited and waited and nothing happened.

One 5"/54 HE/VT round detonating 2,600 feet over the consulate (air burst) would have gave the CIA contractors the diversion they needed.

So would have one fly over of a FA-18 or F-16 with after burners at 800 or more MPH.

 

There were no destroyers nearby to provide such fire.

I know for a fact that terrorists willing to die to kill others are easily terrified and routed by loud noises.

 

You'll have to take that up with CnC Obama why there were only three Arleigh Burke destroyers in the entire 6th Fleet AOR.

 

Even in Reagan's era we didn't hve a destroyer waiting off the coast of every CIA annex on the planet.

 

But when Reagan was the CnC there was always a CBG and an ARG in the 6th Fleet AOR along with a whole armada of other war ships and auxiliaries.

Every President from Truman to G.W. Bush always had a Carrier Battle Group and an Amphibious Ready Group with 2,000 Marines in the Mediterranean Sea (6th Fleet AOR) 24/7.

CnC Trump inherited Obama's PC Navy and in just seven months Trump has increased the number of ships being in their assigned AOR's by almost 50% compared to Obama.

Yesterday, July 31st 2017 there were 22 ships in the 6th Fleet AOR.

 

Which still wouldn't matter if those ships were more than 7 hours away.

 

The battle went on for 13 hours.

 

Not really. The vast majority of it was over within the first 6. All the real significant damage was done in that time.

 

Burkes and Ticonderogas can deliver 20 and 40 RPM at a sustained rate for about 15 minutes each(assuming every round they had was HE, and they actually had to put 600-1200 rounds on a target).

The big problem with NGF is that even with computerized systems those rounds are landing hundreds of meters apart.

While flyovers and strafing runs have proven to be extremely effective, particularly when immediate suppression is needed from CAS, lasers aren't all that Hollywood makes them out to be. LTD couldn't have been used against targets to the north, east or west of the compound portion of the compound in Benghazi for NGF(assuming that the ship had LG rounds), as you must have you back to the GTL(otherwise that round is coming straight for you), not to mention that you would have to have direct LOS and could only fire one round at a time because the smoke and dust from the first round would render LTD worthless.

 

NGF with conventional rounds has a tendency to skip like a rock, and from my personal experience travel up to 3,000 meters past the initial point of impact. Not to mention that that gun barrel is constantly rocking on the ocean.

Artillery is inherently inaccurate outside of laser and GPS guided munitions

 

I don't know Old Man Fred, when did you serve ?

Unless you are dealing with maybe a bunker most calls for fire are dealing with area targets, maybe troops out in the open. 500 yards wide and 250 yards deep. All depending if the enemy strength if your dealing with is an enemy platoon, company or even a battalion.

Bunker complexes and trench complexes are usually area targets meaning the rounds have to be dispersed over a wide area.

Are you aware that one Iowa class battleship in just one hour can put more tons of ordnance on target than an entire Nimitz class air wing can in 24 hours.

 

Shock and awe has it's place, but war has changed quite a bit. A battleship close enough to shell a target of a modern nation is close enough for electronic warfare, and if you're blind and deaf you're dead.

 

How would EW affect a 16" gun ?

Even the computers inside the Iowa's gun plot room are analog computers believe it or not. Old technology but new isn't always better.

I'm sure you understand geopolitics and know what gunboat diplomacy is.

 

The psychological factor is the sole reason we still have main combat tanks, as their sound alone is truly terrifying to non professional troops. EW wouldn't be able to hinder the ability of a battleship to fire, but without communications or GPS(although Russia's probably the only other country with legitimate counter GPS capability) they're just several thousand tons of steel waiting to hit the bottom of the ocean.

While we've perfected counter insurgency, and become dangerously dependent upon CAS and indirect fire, China and Russia have been focusing on the equipment to directly counter the way we fight.

 

A NSFS mission or even a CAS mission could be conducted without radio communications...they same way they were conducted before radios.

Signal flags and lamps using mores code.

The first CAS ever conducted was by U.S.Marines during the Banana Wars. The Marines on the ground used signal flags to communicate with the pilots above in their planes telling them where the enemy was and where to drop their bombs.

 

As a member of 3d ANGLICO, let me tell you how well air panels did for us during the invasion of Iraq.

There's a video of A10s doing an attack run on Coalition forces, allegedly mistaken for Iraqi troops as they were north of the FLOT, and those A10s went in for a SECOND RUN after abort was called in for blue on blue.

Low flying turbo props? That could work. Jet aircraft at 15,000 feet? Not so much.

 

Holley amphibious **** !!!

You have my ears Old Man Fred.

You served with 3 rd ANGLICO !!!



Even though never activated and deployed to Vietnam. 3rd ANGLICO was rated as the # 1 combat ready unit with in the 4th Mar Div during the Cold War...year after year.

I think we can share sea stories Old Man Fred.

Everyone one in the fire support business knows who 3rd. ANGLICO was during the 60's and today.

They prevailed during Desert Storm and in Afghanistan and during the war in Iraq.

 

What I can not understand is why our Naval gunfire is not using a seeking head like the Copperhead for some rounds. It is not like we do not have the technology.

 

The Excal, which replaced the Copperhead, runs about $150,000 a round

 

Spent most of my time with the engineers, and then my unit got deactivated. ANGLICO sounded super cool and so did $20,000 for a 20 month extension, not to mention pretty much automatic promotions once you hit time in grade.

7 dudes going to Afghanistan for 3 months and coming back with 13 Purple Hearts? Not so much.

 

John kerry got three purple hearts.

Two for self inflicted wounds and one for loosing his balance and hitting his head on the bulkhead.

 

They were all for gunshot wounds.

The Team Chief even took a 7.62 straight to the chest, and broke his plate

 

People get medals for bullshit all the time.

My last FITREP(performance review) right before getting out involved me standing over a Major's shoulder as he filled it out, beginning by marking me as average. Having run operations for the entire unit I repeatedly told my supervisor that I was not an ammo tech, not admin, not a radio operator, not embark, and not motor T.

My score slowly climbed from average to exemplary, but every punk ass boot Admin Clerk in the Marine Corps has more NAMs than I do.

 

During the Vietnam War when an officer was awarded the Bronze Star the Bronze Star was referred to as the Officers Good Conduct Medal.

Just about every officer who was in-country seemed to got one. It was part of punching the time clock every day. On a certain day a Bronze Star popped out.

Enlisted men had to earn their medals usually with sweat and blood.

And honest officers know it and admit it.