Gabbard doubles down on the claim that we armed terrorists such as Al Qaeda

She's right.... again.

 

I like her policy on deployments.
She is the only candidate who can get Moi not to vote for Trump.
Sadly, Trump broke his promise to get out of Afghanistan.
Otherwise, I vote Trump unless given the choice of Gabbard.


Moi

Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.​

 

Tell me what strategic advantage we have had for the last 18 years? Not a damn one.

 

You must not be very old. You don't remember back in the 1980s and before where the lack of U.S. bases in the Middle East was consider a major military (and diplomatic) problem for the U.S. Now we have plenty of bases there. We can intervene in any area of the region with a fair amount of ease.

 

I do remember back in the 1980s when the Peanut Farmer totally screwed the pooch in Iran. We don't need bases scattered all over that shithole area of the world. That's the deal people can't seem to get through their thick skulls. Being there is a liability, not an asset.

And you failed to give one single reason why it has been advantageous for us to have been in Afghanistan. Not ONE SINGLE American's death is worth that entire country's population.

 

No more 9-11s being one thing. The 9-11 attacks can be traced directly to the power vacuum the U.S. helped cause in Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated there.

 

Oh yeah, the power vacuum. Who created that problem? We did. How did the terrorists in Afghanistan gain power? WE ARMED THEM. How ****ing dumb. Don't EVER give a weapon to ANYONE in the M.E., because then you'll get your 9-11. *******n the short-sightedness.

So now using your logic, we just need to spend trillions into perpetuity in the Middle East. Great. Then when we collapse, the Russians can laugh their asses off.

Not ONE American should die in the M.E. I'd much rather launch nukes and make a parking lot out of the whole damn place. **** those savages.

 

You know we can't do that. Better 100,000 American soldiers die than we kill millions of civilians. Even Middle Eastern civilians. Soldiers volunteered to die if it was required.

 

And, our Founders placed the decision to go war into the hands of People, through the Congress. Where and why a soldier fights is our decision to make. We should choose well.

My litmus test is to ask myself if I would give up my son for "abc" conflict. If the answer is 'no', then I would not support anyone else giving up their son for it.

 

The arming of al-Qaeda is more a play by a branch of the permanent state, the CIA. I’ve long been convinced the interest of outside parties in the conflict to be about the pipeline, as Syria is a natural chokepoint. This is why the establishment can’t let it go. With Trump’s latest blunder in removing troops from Northern Syria (I agree with the removal, but should have negotiated a peace keeping force with the UN to take the place of the US troops), we should just get the hell out; the damage is done. But the establishment wants to send the troops back! What a ——ing mess that would be!

 

Osama at the time was a 1500 man under strength brigade in 30k army. And no one really knew who the sorry bastard was.

Afghanistan is a prime example of why and how the Middle East tends to be the land of unintended consequences.

 

Well Charlie Wilson drove it, and again See my earlier post.

 

Public policy should not be made by personal tragedy.

 

To personalize it is the best way. Think of a conflict that we have or had in the past. If you lost your son in that conflict, would it be worth it?

That's my litmus test.

 

I have no sons. But even if I did, I wouldn't expect to make policy decisions based on what affected them. That's too maudlin for my tastes. Too "Lifetime or Hallmark movie" style. Policy decisions should be absolutely cold blooded.

 

What sort of advantages?

 

A base astride of the sea lanes from the Persian Gulf where a huge part of the oil for U.S. allies comes from. A stranglehold on the economies of the free world. I remember an analysis back in the 1980s as to what would happen if oil from the Persian Gulf was cut off. For the U.S. it meant a 1,000 point drop in the stock market instantly. And that's when a 1,000 pt. drop meant something.

 

Sure, in the 1980's. Now we have fracking and pipe lines from the ME to Europe.

China might be in trouble, I guess.

 

I thought we were talking about Soviet actions in Afghanistan.

Guess what? That was in the 1980s.

 

While I agree that the "permanent state" has an agenda that is sometimes separate and apart - the arming of rebels in Syria was going on for near 5 years. This was not some small covert operation - it involved many Nation States - coordinating efforts to arm, fund and support a proxy army against Assad.

This was not just complicity by the Political and Bureaucratic Establishment - what is perhaps most troubling is the complicity of the MSM.

The NY Times - and a every other serious journalist covering Syria in the early years of the war - was stating categorically that the proxy army had no "moderates" of any significance. The main groups were either radical Islamist Jihadists - or working along side and fighting for the same cause as the Islamist Jihadists.

That cause - was to turn Secular Syria into an Islamic State - and that is exactly what happened in most of Syria.

This is from a NY-Times in 2013

In only a few years - the Radical Islamist Jihadists took control of nearly every major city in Syria - and the nightmare began for the people living in these cities. Kangaroo Islamic courts were set up - Torture, beheading's, just bizarre dark ages stuff. There was not a single city that was run by these fictitious "moderate army" .

The moderates in this fight - the ones fighting for Secularism - freedom from Islamist extremism - was the Assad forces.

Later on in 2013 - various Islamist Jihadist groups coalesced and formed and declared an Islamic State IS- ISIS. The factors that led to the creation of this Islamic State had nothing to do with - sans foreign fighters from Iraq joining the holy Jihad - with the pullout in Iraq or the small group of ISIS adherents in Iraq left after the surge.

By early 2015 the Syrian army was in danger of losing - Damascus was under siege. Russia had not yet entered the conflict directly. Syria was very close to having the black flag of Al Qaeda/ISIS raised over the Capital.

We knew right from the get go - early in 2012 - that the anti Assad rebels were radical Islamist Jihadists.

This is the assessment of the Defense Intelligence Agency - early in 2012.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...12-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

Biden was under no delusions with respect to the nature of the rebel forces.

https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/

You can find numerous other NY-times articles - and hundreds of other sources - all saying the same thing. And if there was any doubt - one only needs to look at what these Jihadists were doing in the cities they took over.

The anti Assad forces were radical Islamist Extremists .. fighting a Holy Jihad - to turn Syria into a Strict Sharia Islamist totalitarian nightmare.

In 2014 - our ISIS dog in Syria - went off its leash and went into Iraq. This created a problem. All of a sudden we were fighting ISIS in Iraq - but, supporting them in Syria.

Rand Paul on CNN's Sunday morning program "State of the Union" - sums up this situation.

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...-my-son-into-that-mess-on-the-crisis-in-iraq/

Syria had become a mess - a mess of our creation. Crowley is desperately trying to spin the narrative -but Paul gets the point across - "We armed Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria" and were on the same side of the war as these animals.

So this is the situation in 2014 - Daily reports of the horrors happening in cities under the control of the radical Islamic Jihadists are coming in. They are posting video's on Facebook and Youtube - Proud of their atrocities. There are no "moderates" of any significance anywhere to be found.

Turkey is helping the Islamic State economy by allowing transport of oil from Syria to Turkey. "One US Treasury official estimated that ISIL earns US$1 million a day from the export of oil. Much of the oil is sold illegally in Turkey"

Estimated wealth of the Islamic State was estimated to be over 2 Billion.

It was at this time that Obama started promoting the "Moderate Rebel Lie" an absurd false narrative so full of doublespeak that Orwell himself would blush. ?

In 2014 - Obama signs a spending bill authorizing funds to train Syria Rebels.

By 2015 we have managed to train 70 people - who then return to Syria and hand their weapons over to Al Qaeda. Estimates that over a Billion dollars was spent on this program.

U.S.-trained rebels in Syria hand over weapons to al Qaeda affiliate
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/22/us-trained-rebels-syria-hand-over-weapons-al-qaeda/

Sept 2015 - Last Wednesday, General Lloyd Austin, head of US Central Command, shocked leaders in the US Senate's armed services committee when he said there were only handful of programme graduates still fighting inside Syria. "We're talking four or five," he said.

The armed services committee was "Shocked" ?! - what a joke. Almost of Syria - sans Damascus- is controlled by Radical Islamist Jihadists - and this is what constitutes the entirety of the proxy army fighting Assad. - A proxy army that was armed and supported - and thus created by a massive effort of numerous nation states - which included the US and other Western allies such as Britain.

So we decide to train 70 people "Division 30" ? - and these moderates are going to do what ?

Division 30 was the first faction whose fighters graduated from a US-led training programme in Turkey which aims to forge a force on the ground in Syria to fight against Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isil). https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...ons-over-to-al-Qaedas-affiliate-in-Syria.html

What ? Hold on here - what happened to the "moderate rebels" fighting Assad ? the one's we are supposed to be supporting in the war against the Evil Assad. Now all of a sudden we are going to train people - to fight the proxy army that is fighting Assad ?? - all 70 of them.

This was a propaganda Stunt. "we are fighting ISIS - " - a Lie - at that time we were still supporting ISIS "moderate Rebels" - a preposterous Lie - almost all of Syria was under the control of radical Islamist Jihadists.

After 2014 - when these lies were being told - the NY-Times - along with all the other MSM - promptly forgot all their previous reporting and either covered up these lies or reinforced the Establishment propaganda and false narratives.

 

But they were ultimately pointless, indeed counterproductive. In any case, the Russians could not have pacified Afghanistan any more than the Americans.