Gay Teen Suicide: A Range of Causes

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by Silhouette, May 26, 2011.

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Do you think the scenario in the OP is a plausible cause for gay teen suicide?

  1. No, it's utter rubbish

    65.9%
  2. Possibly, I'd have to see more data

    9.8%
  3. Yes, I think it's possible

    19.5%
  4. Absolutely. I even know of such a case that is very simliar

    4.9%
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  1. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Gay kids are killing themselves in Castro San Francisco. They are surrounded by an entire city that promotes that subculture at every turn in the bend. Every day they are met with encouragement to be as queer as a an armadillo in the Arctic. And yet, oddly, without bullying or pestering or any negative impact...certainly far less than other teen suicides in different cultural groups, they are killing themselves.

    And remember, this latest one had Lady Gaga as his idol. And he just posted a youtube talking about "all the great support I've been getting". Then he killed himself.

    Here's the OP snippet again:

    My experience with gays is that they tend to be, as a group, very into drawing attention to themselves in public, in groups etc. They like to weave sexual innuendo into conversations...a LOT. Their parades are all about as raw and raunchy sexual exhibitionism they can get away with legally. And they do. They get away with stuff in public venues that would put heteros behind bars and on the sex-offenders list for life. But alas, we're all supposed to look the other way when it comes to their antics. In fact, if I had to say all in all, especially the last 20 years or so, gays have been getting the lion's share of preferential treatment and been handled with kid gloves in schools. There are a few exceptions of course as exceptions always exist in any human system. By and large they've been getting away with murder [literally when you consider some of them are what their vernacular calls "AIDS terrorists">> a gay man with HIV who knowingly goes around having lots of unprotected sex without telling his partners] and still want more...

    And like I said, they're killing themselves in Castro. Something is amiss with the gay teen bullying/suicide scenario. There are missing components. I think when you're trying to save lives, you ignore political agendas and you simply get to the bottom of how to save lives...no matter what that means confronting...

    For instance, an "AIDS terrorist" might be a compulsively-gay man who is that way [and he knows he is] because he was molested as a boy. So he goes around infecting as many adult gay men as he can in a latent assault on his assailant...acting out what he couldn't as a small and impotent child so many years ago. Like a serial killer with a score to settle. Serial killers often act out the desire to kill someone simliar to who assaulted them in their younger years. Stuff like that. We need to look at it, all of it. The good, the bad and the ugly. After all, we're talking about saving lives, right?

    This is, we found out, what our family friend did. For all intents and purposes, if he knew he was infected with HIV all those years and still went out having unprotected sex with many many many partners like we heard he did, then he was, for all intents and purposes, a serial killer..
     
  2. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    I didn't make any such claim.

    In fact, I don't think that anyone defines themselves completely by their sexuality. However, it can be more/less an issue for each individual. There is no cookie-cutter "standard" by which that can be 'measured'.
     
  3. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Look, you cannot take what is happening in SF and translate it onto an entire nation or all gays. Just stop it; it's wrong.
     
  4. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Look, you cannot just say stuff without substance as a rebuttal. You can't take one or two gay teen suicides claiming to be so as from bullying and translate it onto an entire nation or all gay teens. Just stop it; it's wrong.

    Gay teens killing themselves in Castro San Francisco, surrounded by "loving gay community". Attempt to do the math. Then read the OP again.

    My quest is to consider BOTH the gay teens committing suicide from bullying AND the gay teens committing suicide in the Castro district of SF CA. Your bid is to only consider one of them. So half of the problem you're trying to ignore. That means half of the untimely deaths from gay teen suicides you would rather not prevent. After all, if it suits a political agenda to say all gay teen suicides result from bullying, then a little "collateral damage" is "worth it" right?

    You have offered nothing of substance at all. Saying you have is just heresay of you supporting your own delusion. Gays teens are IN FACT killing themselves surrounded by uber-support from their entire community. It doesn't fit with the "bullying" model at all.
     
  5. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Stop lying, and promoting falsehoods here. I've offered much of substance... considering that "substance" here amounts to words/opinion in the vast majority of cases.

    Sorry if I MUST call your stuff as being false; but much of it is (I know it from education, experience and intuition). And while I don't expect any participant of reader to adopt my views as fact... I DO encourage them to check every darned claim YOU would make here in this forum.

    It would behoove them to do so.
     
  6. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Here is something for many to consider: I know that Silhouette has 'a' view upon all of this, but there are others, indeed.
     
  7. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Here's another set of causes of gay teen suicide: [while you're honestly exploring all angles to gay teen suicide, right?]

    Harvey Milk sexually invaded Jack McKinley when he was 16. Manic-depression and drug use and gay...where where where have I heard that before. Oh! I remember...

    And now for the OP scenario and question for the poll:

     
  8. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    The poll associated with this thread, reflects well-enough people's overall agreement with your premise in the OP. I think you need to accept that.

    Teen suicide in-general is a concern of mine... but the things you imply or conclude about gay teens here, are at best questionable and likely just plain ludicrous. People need to make themselves aware of the same.
     
  9. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Here's something to else to consider.
     
  10. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    ..."bullying" is most likely a significant portion of the problems which gay teens face.
     
  11. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting also.

     
  12. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    ..."bullying" needs to be addressed, before teen suicide can likely be significantly reduced. And I think that most gay people (teen and otherwise) will be taught or learn to fight back, in the years to come.

    Being gay does not have to equate to homosexuals being more "suicidal"; even so, our society must adjust and change in many ways before that can change. Some solutions rest with those who support homosexuals and others rest within the hearts and minds of homosexual people themselves.

    In any case, homosexuality itself isn't the problem; it's just a fact of reality that many more people need to learn to deal with PROPERLY (in more healthy ways).
     
  13. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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  14. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Or you can research what the CDC and Psychiatrists have learned:

     
  15. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there is a lot to consider. Even so, I'm not for stigmatizing gay teens (or any gay people) about this.

    I agree that research should be continued and solutions applied. And the one thing I won't buy (considering all I have learned over the years), is that "homosexuality" is THE problem. That is no more a problem than someone being 'heterosexual'.
     
  16. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    We can agree that early sexual experience determines orientation and that any tampering with children under 18 would unduly influence a person's sexual orientation..

    So it would behoove people to research that. And BTW Johnny. Quit spamming to make relevent information disappear off pages your political agenda doesn't want people to read. You know, things like the Clinical Psychiatrists News 2005 findings by the CDC that deep depression [the kind that leads to suicide] and drug use in gay males is directly an inextricably linked to episodes in childhood of being molested...one would presume, by a man.. As it turns out, this "bullying" is the seed and most significant form that may lead to later bullying. The later bullying [since most teens experience bullying in one form or another..hence the high rates in hetero boys too] may trigger old memories of being totally taken over by someone [a bully] so powerful that there was no hope of fighting back? Yes, we should explore and prevent ALL TYPES of bullying to children.
     
  17. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    No, you don't know that and haven't even come close to proving that. Can you even try to do so? Go ahead.

    Please... stop inventing things, Silhouette.

    No, anyone reviewing your comments here, would do very well to check what you say; they shouldn't believe a single 'conclusion' you present. They need to check into things themselves.

    BTW, what I'm presenting here is relevant overall; if you don't care for my approach it would be reasonable to accept that there is more than YOUR way of attending the topic. I'm not here to derail the things you are talking about, but I definitely intend to show that I disagree with your treatment of the issue in-general.
     
  18. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Yes, you are spamming. So quit lying.

    And speaking of lying...

    I know you've been reading my stuff for quite awhile now Johnny. I know you know about all the material I've posted with links and snippets about artificial insemination in the Ag industry. I know you've read many accounts of different mammals all being able to be selected on the threshold of puberty and molded any direction their handlers wish to perform sexually for the sole purpose of collecting semen in a reliable and safe way for the handlers. I know you've read about how once trained using classical conditioning where the animal learns to associate "stuffed dummy" or "other male animal" or "that green halter" or "the guy in the overalls and rubber boots" or "time of day", or "the sound of the equipment getting prepared" with "orgasm", the animals begin to drool and get erections in anticipation of the next orgasm.

    So I know you've read up on how, across all mammalian species, you can train them to become sexually oriented towards literally anything at all. And I know you remember reading about how since this is true, all the odd paraphilias and presentations of human's sexual appetites run the gamut. In one nice little package, psychologists have a tidy explanation that fits. That they want to distance themselves from all other mammals on this one point is irrelevant, says the comparative psychologist. The fact of the matter is, of all the mammals on earth, the human mammal is the most malleable as to aquired behaviors after birth. We are perhaps the most susceptible to imprinting. Sexual imprinting = sexual orientation.

    So quit trying to play coy. If you challenge me, I will post all those links again and snippets showing the mundane ins and outs of training orientation in AI stud animals. Want to go there again?
     
  19. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    No lying going on here. And as far as spamming... that isn't what I'm doing here.

    And I am certain that I disagree with what you say as a result. What you're communicating, isn't realistic in most cases. You mix in a lot of nonsense with truth; that's clever, but detectable. You poise yourself as an expert, but come to conclusions which illustrate that others should challenge what you say.

    Your "spam" etc? And what YOU say/interpret they mean, is essentially unsupported by any expert I've read or heard of. You expect people to BUY what you are saying, but they don't necessarily have to do that (and you should know that by now). If you say things that ultimately come off as untrue... why should you be honored because you post quote-after-quote?

    Sorry, you simply aren't convincing to that many and certainly not to me. And that is obviously not only my opinion saying these things, your own POLL associated with you OP, implies the same view.

    In any case, I don't think that shows what you tend to communicate. That homosexual people are somehow diseased and faulty (in your view). And overall, I think what you are doing here is disgustingly misleading and surely hateful.

    I've not seen ANY reputable organization dealing in mental health, suggest the kinds of things you suggest in this thread, despite the MANY things you've quoted in an effort to lend credibility to your hateful premises. And while I agree that you can mention all of those things and enjoy it (in your own mind) as justifying your views... still others have the right to challenge you in their own ways. I question virtually everything you've shared on these pages, and while you put in a lot of effort, I still say it is the bottom line you seem to come to (anti-homosexual views) which cause me to question most of anything you say here. Sorry.

    The theories might be interesting, but the conclusions you derive from the thoughts bouncing around in your mind... aren't considered to be viable by each and every expert. So, you have your opinions... but your conclusions are yet unsupported in the vast majority of cases. That is, what you THINK all of this data you are submitting means... doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does (in the opinions of many other experts). You are suggesting some radical and hateful stuff IMO.

    Quit trying to play singular expert authority on these matters. You need to PROVE this BS you are putting up here, not just claim to have found something on the internet which trumps all other opinions on the matters you pain with your clever, broad and hateful brush (pretending that science is somehow backing you up). :(

    Yes. Go there. But this time, KNOW that you should be proving the conclusions you suggest, rather than imagine others should marvel at you many references and bow down to YOUR opinions/conclusions.

    So here is a simple question... what do YOU think are the most viable causes of teen suicide today?
     
  20. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    I'll take that as a challenge then to call back the subject on another topic.
     
  21. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    Meanwhile back to the topic here. Spam and strawmen notwithstanding..

    "childhood sex abuse, and partner violence were predictors of major depression."

    So the CDC as published in a Clinical Psychiatrist's periodical has found and declared a link between being molested as a boy and having "major" depression as an adult or gay teen.

    And what do you know? Major depression is what is the causal agent behind all suicides.

    By jove I think we've found another certified, verified, stamped and approved cause of gay teen suicides besides bullying! That would explain the suicides in Castro, San Francisco where gay teens are surrounded by "loving support" on all sides [including their backsides]. And undoubtedly have been receiveing that "support" since their earliest childhood memories...
     
  22. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Great.

    Of course, likely ANY kid is going to be messed-up, if their parents don't get along or are violent people. (I've known a few people like that in my lifetime. Alcohol seemed to be a major factor, for some reason.)

    And you are proving what, by merely claiming that was published?

    You aren't proving anything about homosexual kids, you are merely asserting what YOU have concluded (interpreted).

    Really? So how common are any of these factors, where any children are concerned? Is bullying more or less a problem, and how do BOTH these aspects factor-in to the suicide problem as a whole? You see, those are very important questions to ask (and distinctions to be made).

    And this means what? You haven't shown anything here, but your own opinion, riddled with irrational animus for homosexual people; including the children IMO.

    A child in a situation where they are abused or subjected to violence, will be a damaged person. It has nothing to do with their sexual-orientation.
     
  23. Silhouette

    Silhouette New Member

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    You think that lying and deception are going to win this debate for you dont' you? I notice you purposefully misinterpreted what the Clinical Psychiatrists published. The article, if you had read it, talked about gay males beyond their earliest formative years. Their MAJOR depression in gay males has as a causal agent CHILDHOOD SEXUAL ABUSE. That is, as in their own being victims of said.

    The "partner violence" [as you know but purposefully misconstrued], was referring to those gay male's relationships, not their parents' relationship.

    You really are getting desperate to grab at lies so manifest. I understand the findings of the CDC and Psychiatrists mean that you have to accept that major depression in gay teens and gay men can be traced back to episodes of their being molested [by men] in their formative [there's a reason they call it this BTW..see last page my post near the end] years. I understand this may be hard for you to soak in. Often episodes of sexual violation as a child are suppressed and the mind does funny tricks to try to keep that vault closed.

    If you can't handle this honest introspection of what causes gay teen major depression significant enough to cause suicide, then you should not be posting here. You should get therapy instead. I'm not saying that to be mean or bullying BTW. You really should.

    Meanwhile if you can still handle the topic of stark honesty about gay major depression and what the professionals are saying about its causal agents, there's more about the formative process and the "inheritability" between what was done to a person sexually as a child and what they grow up "to be" [affected by. I refuse to accept a deviant behavior as an inclusive "self" identification..] This one comes from the Mayo Clinic in 2007...

    I submit the following as to that last point:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...characters-take-center-stage-comic-books.html

    What demographic are comic books geared towards? That's right. Children at or near or in the thoes of puberty: the exact age AI experts have found that all mammals may be trained to sexually orient towards any number of artificial or non-reproductive stimuli in order to achieve orgasm.

    I'm sure it's just a coincidence....that and all the terms in gay vernacular discussing "tampering" with youngsters...

    Yep...all just one big coincidence...the tampering...the gay teen major depression..the links found by the CDC to being molested as kids...the "tradition" of enticing the next generation into the original orientation-fixation [the comic books]... All just one big gigantic, perfectly fitting puzzle ...
     
  24. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    No. Still, questioning this spammed BS you keep putting up, gets about... nowhere.

    What's your point?
     
  25. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    "the cause of gay teen suicide seems pretty clear"? Perhaps you could share with us "the cause" that is supposed to already be clear.
     
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