Gay Teen Suicide: A Range of Causes

I investigated a lot of suicides. Teens are quite vulnerable for a lot of reasons. I would say that less than 3% of the suicides I investigated were logical. An example of a logical suicide would be a professor I knew who had pancreatic cancer. When he got down to the really bed part he killed himslef. I don't think that was illogical.

But, a 14-year old went to school, his girlfriend said, "I never want to see you again," so he want home at lunch and killed himself. I suspect he thought she'd be devastated and she was. Her new boyfriend had to hold her up at the funeral where she put on a performance worthy of a drama queen.

Trying to isolate a reason for suicide is pointless. If you have children, when they become teenagers you simply do the best you can and pray they make it through to sanity.

 

Good advice. And when that child shows outward signs of having been molested according to the guidelines that law enforcement follows, such as sexual addiction, sexual promiscuity and other compulsive sexual behaviors [in keeping with the theme of this thread], and he shows signs of major depression, drug use, anxiety and so forth, you take him to a shrink. "Doing everything you can" includes getting to the bottom of his compulsions and outward manifestations of mental illness, no matter how politically incorrect it may be.

If one therapist turns you down because he doesn't want to get to the bottom of his depression if it means having to admit it is tied to his sexual behaviors, which happen to be gay, you don't give up. You take him to another then another then another therapist until he finds solace and resolution. You get a counselor that will walk him through the old pain to try to find reasons behind the compulsive and depressive behaviors. If that means staying gay as his choice. So be it. If it means reparative therapy at his choice to curb that compulsion. So be it. Whatever helps that young man find his center of happiness. Neither route should be denied.

The trouble is that some in this debate think that the majorly depressed teen may not ever 1. Try to find out if his gayness is "born that way" or foisted on him and 2. Be able to seek reparative therapy to change that orientation if it is found to be foisted on him.

I'm saying it's up to the kid. Kids who feel like they control their own destinies without pressure one way or the other, and who are able to seek and find help to realize those desitinies are far less apt to kill themselves than those who feel trapped with no way out...even amidst a subculture that "loves and supports" them as long as they stay gay...

 

I HOPE that you aren't implying that further study/research, and measures of prevention concerning teen suicide are not warranted.

The experts need to dig as deeply as they MUST, to garner the best solutions possible for all.

 

No, but I am saying that no magic bullet to prevent teenage suicides will be found and exploiting teenage suicides for political ends helps no one.

I dealt with a lot of suicides professionally and my family has dealt with suicide more than once.

Oh, and Silhouette, a disturbing number of suicides were seeing psychatrists/psychologists/counselors at the time.

My adopted nephew told me when he was 10-years old that it was his fault his father committed suicide. I asked him how he arrived at that conclusion. Well, if he'd been a better son his mother wouldn't have run off with a boyfriend and if she hadn't run off his father wouldn't have committed suicide.

The only person responsible for a suicide is the person committing suicide. spin it anyway you want.

 

I think you are wrong about that. If a child is repeatedly molested by a man, then that boy's assailant is responsible for suicidal feelings in that child. Period. There is no gray area there. Being violated like that is a direct perpetrator-guilty relationship.

Now the scenario you mentioned, where a boy took on complex psychological issues over another dysfunction he wasn't a part of...that does have gray areas.

But at least, and FINALLY it's nice to see a professional step into this debate and take sides with exploring all reasons for gay teen suicides, instead of just the one handpicked by gay militants to forward their political agenda of gaining access to school curriculum to paint only a glowing [enticing] picture of people who habitually engage in gay or other types of deviant sexual behaviors... even when that engagement renders directly out into higher statistics for future HIV spread.

How they're going to walk that tightrope between "the AIDS" part of health ed and "gay guys are great" part of health ed when all the statistics are lining up to show that gays aren't doing well mentally, and that that "not doing well" stems from what the CDC found: "That major depression and drug use rampant among gay men/teens are often and directly related to episodes of having been molested as boys." Major depression is the type of depression that leads to suicide BTW.

Saying suicides were in therapy when they ended their life is a really shadowy injection into the topic. Would you care to give details? I'll give you a detail. When it comes to gay teens in therapy when they kill themselves we all know one thing as fact. It is indisputable that if a gay teen enters therapy with his own avid and personal desire to rid himself of the compulsive and promiscuous sexual attraction to other males, he may not receive therapy to do so. No counselor who wants to retain her or his license to practice will even come close to that topic. So if the source of gay teen angst is "unwanted compulsive sexual attraction to the same gender" particularly as a result of being molested as a child, that teen will enter new depths of depression the likes of which are harrowing to think about. Imagine all of your angst unable to be resolved, no matter how many therapists tell you "to embrace" your unwanted compulsion, or how many parents or peers tell you "it's OK, we like you just how you are"....no one...the entire world cannot relate to the poison inside of you from those episodes as a child locked in the closet with Mr. McFeely the janitor at your elementary school...

No wonder they're killing themselves. There is nowhere for them to turn. "Surrounded by unquestioning support" may actually be the catalyst driving many of these teens to their doom. In fact the most recent case, the boy on youtube mentioned receiving very recently tons of support from the gay community and other people to be "just how you are"..."because you are born that way". Then he killed himself. Chances are if he was molested, he knows (*)(*)(*)(*) well in his visceral angst that he wasn't "born that way" at all

THAT little tidbit needs another looksie...

Child molestation is a dark topic that gays have found people are more than willing to ignore or drop because of its diceyness. And yet the statistics are there in the Atlanta report on major depression in gay men linked to episodes of being molested as children. The CDC found this type of depression as "an epidemic" among gay men. So this isn't a few isolated cases. One could say then that if the majority of gay men were not "born that way" and instead are dealing with mountains of grief from being molested as boys, that the entire gay movement needs to be seen in a new light. Then the Mayo clinic reports that there is unquestionable and obvious evidence linking an "abused-abuser" syndrome in victims of molestation. That boys molested as children often grow up to seek out children to molest at the same age they were molested. We need to stop being so prude and start being thirsty in our quest to understand that which is marching its way right into elementary schools as we speak..

 

I'm a realist; I don't seek magic bullets and instant fixes. The fact that there is political and other types of static surrounding difficult or controversial issues... is something I accept as a part of the processes related to the workings of human beings.

I'm not a professional therapist, but I've dealt with many depressed/suicidal individuals. As a senior military professional, we receive training related to that very thing. We ARE proactive about it, and realize it isn't all based upon 'chance' and 'best wishes'.

If I told my Commanding Officer what you just did above, I'd be counseled and retrained. There is more to preventing suicide, than placing blame; outcomes CAN be changed or affected, and lives can be saved via effective intervention.

 

Not if reparative therapy is flatly denied to those seeking it and they are surrounded by the types of people that foisted an unwanted compulsion upon them in childhood...then go on to "lovingly support them to embrace it [the results of being raped as a child].

Did you read my response to Patrick?

 

This most recent suicide fits the shoe disturbingly well. He had said he had been bulllied all along for his being ? he really wasn't all that clear on it. Then, just as he announced that Mr. Meat-dress ["Lady" Gaga] was his idol and that he took it's message to heart that he was "born that way" too, and right on the heels of overwhelming support pouring in from the gay and straight community...it was at that precise time, and not before, he decided to take his own life.

Odd. But not if you consider the "loving support" scenario above. It appears to fit. Really well actually. People who commit suicide are almost always looking for a way out of an unbearable situation they feel will never change. Since his situation was "changing for the better" as he decided to take his life, bullying cannot be the sole cause of his suicide.

 

Please, stop distorting reality; you haven't proven a darned thing here.

 

Silhouette, to be honest, I'm not going to digest anymore of your thoughts/ideas (with the exception of deciphering enough, to WARN others to review expressions and viewpoints other than those you relate within this forum).

I think you are relating many ineffective and dangerous notions. So, you can have your 'theories' and whatever you rationalize your positions with... but I'm letting you know right here, that I'm going to warn others about 'believing' anything you're claiming here.

 

I think Silhouette has struck a nerve, you just cant deal with. Like a small child with his hands clasped tightly over his ears, eyes clinched tightly shut, as you yell la la la la la la la la la....I CANT HEAR YOU.

 

Well to be accurate, it's not so much what I'm saying as it is what the Mayo Clinic and the CDC has said.

To recap, they have said that major depression in gays is inextricably linked to their having been molested as children. And that this is such a prevalent connection that it is an "epidemic" among gay men... and therefore by extension, the gay subculture itself.

That's what the CDC revealed. What the Mayo Clinic revealed is that those who were molested often grow up to molest. This further cements the pedophilic vicious cycle also known as the gay movement. It must be one and the same because of the choice of the word "epidemic" by the CDC. To further add the hardener to these relationships is gay vernacular itself which is rife with references to pedicating children and underaged teens.

Yes, maybe I assembled it all here but experts are the ones saying it. Why they cannot have round tables of their own is beyond me...when so much is riding on it. But then again when SS-style gay coercion groups exist who attempt to coordinate peer against peer in the psychology field, encouraging them to turn in their colleagues if reparative therapy is attempted.. [only with gays...with straight girls who are cumpulsively promiscuous or prostitutes as a result of child molestation episodes then, you know..it's OK to repair] you see the reluctance of professionals to step forward and confer with each other about the different pieces of the gay teen suicide puzzle.

And again, it is puzzling when gay teens are killing themselves "surrounded with love and support" for their gayness. There's something else going on. The Mayo Clinic and the CDC nailed it. The epidemic of gays who were molested as children.

The numbers add up.

 

Johnny views the APA, the profession that defines, diagnose and treats mental disorder, as the experts on homosexuality.

 

Heterosexual teens commit suicide also; homosexual teens have some extreme societal hurdles/barriers to overcome, in addition to the usual things.

Even so, in all of this... anyone reading this thread, is better-off looking to the APA or other reputable organization for more information. They certainly should not depend upon YOUR analysis of these things; that would not be a good idea.

 

You lie. Try learning to communicate the truth, better than you apparently do.

Even so, I would say that the APA likely has far greater credibility concerning this topic, than any ONE person participating in this forum (surely including myself).

 

And in your mind, greater credibility than the CDC, The Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins psych department AND the entire field of sociology. Sooooo what authority do you place above the APA on matters of homosexuality?

 

In my view, neither you nor I (nor anyone else has proven to be)... more credible on this or other matters related to mental health.

As far as myself of the others mentioned above, I also think that no one participating here is 'qualified' to actually judge (absolutely) one organization against the other.

You/I may have an opinion about ANY of these organizations, but you certainly haven't gone as far as proving that the APA isn't completely credible as an organization. So again, you have a right to your opinion... but it would take a series of investigations and related news stories, to PROVE to most that the APA is less-than-credible.

Question: Do you think/believe that 'homosexuality' in young people, is a type of disease or disorder?

I say that while being young and homosexual brings with it certain difficulties, it is certainly not (the state of) BEING 'homosexual' which leads to becoming suicidal, as some have idiotically implied upon the pages of posts in this thread. Now, if YOU (or others) are NOT implying the above... I wish that you would state it clearly enough, to bolster your own credibility. Otherwise, I'll question this BS to the very end.

 

Have you ever put anyone on ignore before? I am virtually certain you have. Even so, it is clear that you can criticize me; but can you post views/opinions relevant to the OP?

I don't give a hoot what people think of me, although it is nice to be agreed with at times.

Anyway, if you can show me EXACTLY how anyone's opinions here are more credible than those of medical and mental health professionals presently in the field... I'll take considering your views more seriously overall. As I see it for now, the usual suspects are out to vilify homosexual people, in whatever manner they might muster; and I'm against that period.

 

Yes Johnny, especially since the APA doesn't listen to esteemed institutions for its science, but instead takes and bows to "information" from the patients it should be treating. This would be like an organization of necrophiles putting up a website to set guidelines for the treatment of other problems necrophiles suffer from [diseases they catch from the corpses they're sexually attracted to; and social stigmas curbing their orientation] but disallowing the APA to consider the necrophilia itself as a manifestation of mental illness.

Last time I checked, the CDC and the Mayo Clinic aren't taking imput from laymen in order to arrive at conclusions in objective studies..

Here's who the APA is taking their guidelines from on treating gay teen suicide:

It's absolutely astonishing that a laymen's group would be designing guidelines and curriculum to browbeat professionals via threats [in their ethics page] of "being turned in if they don't tow the line."

Meanwhile the most prestigious scientific groups in the nation are utterly ignored by the APA, which has been inflitrated with gay-militants and their sympathizers for a couple decades now..

Here it is in black and white and the APA which gays love to cite is doing this to their peers/superiors:

Gee, I guess what the CDC and clinical psychiatrists [more prestigious than the APA] are saying is that major depression in gays epidemically stems from their being molested as children. The choice of the word "epidemic" was not random. It means that this phenomenon is pervasive throughout the gay culture itself because it affects so many of its members and its members are what makes it up.

Which makes CA's SB 48 all the more insidious. They're trying to entice children that gay lifestyles are "the bomb".

The Mayo Clinic [also more prestigious than the APA], just echos in and reiterates the findings of the CDC:

This whole "It gets better" campaign is sickening if you examine it from the angle that the APA is held hostage as to what they are allowed to do to make it "get better". Imagine telling young girls who were molested and grew up to exhibit the classic telltale sign of promiscuity or prostitution and who were told not to be rid of those dangerous afflictions, but instead to "embrace them and wait for it to get better"! We wouldn't hesitate to use reparative therapy to help those young women recover from their foisted compulsion. Nobody would even dispute that. But if a male exhibits compulsive gay sex as a teen as a result of being molested an imprinted thusly by a male, and he doesn't want that compulsion but wants to have reproductive sexual orientation he would've had if he had not been tampered with, that teen may not receive any reparation at all. Not even if he wishes it strongly. Not even if he is suicidal if he doesn't get reparation.

At that point in a teen's mind thus afflicted. At a crucial point of angst, to be told "it gets better" as he is urged to "embrace his gayness", that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Imagine the horror of being told not to rid yourself of the one thing that causes you the deepest depressive feelings, but to embrace being a victim of that instead???

And they wonder why gay teens are offing themselves in Castro. I understand that to pretend like the CDC and Mayo Clinic "may be onto something but we're not sure.." leaves room to obfuscate a very simple topic and make it go away. But the grim facts are that child molestation is intrinsically linked to gay men and teen depression. Ignoring it is not going to make it go away. The Mayo Clinic says it perpetuates itself too, through "social learning".

These are all things voters need to be aware of before being steamrollered by blind gay militant groups in denial [and control of defining] their own mental illnesses.

 

That's all they do, huh? Please, stop being ridiculous.

 

Here is an interesting article.

 

Certainly hasnt prevented you from making that judgement.

 

Yes indeed. Since this thread will be requested to be shut down soon [whew right?] I've moved the discussion to the current topics addressing Jamey Rodemeyer's recent suicide and if it is ethical to deny gay teens reparative therapy. And if this denial is tied into gays pushing a political platform.

It can be found here: http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...eyer-gay-teen-suicides-political-tragedy.html

 

For most people in this world who are 'gay', they are 'gay'. We all (especially those of us who are homosexual) struggle. For all of us there are difficulties and pitfalls along the way.

Suicide? Yeah, it is something that many people consider... whether gay, straight, young or old, rich or poor.

Silhouette's views and approach to homosexuality here, tend to enrage me. But putting my finger on exactly why, isn't absolutely necessary for me to share the following:

If you are homosexual or have people who are homosexual in your life, just know that they are people... LIKE YOU. If you have the capacity to do so, please treat them with love and respect. People can/do most often [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLs4NCgvNU&feature=related"]GET BETTER[/ame].

The ways we handle homosexuality in this society MUST change. For many, the solution seems to get rid of or push gayness into the 'shadows' (where it is not seen or considered readily). I know what the urge to do that feels like, I held my closet door SHUT for most of my adult life. I am a career military man, who has fought in virtually every war since 1980; and of all the burdens I've carried, few were as heavy as keeping my sexuality off-the-radar... despite the fact that I'm masculine and tend to fit right in with any other men.

But I remember being a child, and around the age of 13... not being interested in 'girls', in the way(s) that other guys were. I was always of a gentle spirit, tender inside as many kids are... but in certain ways, I had to grow up QUICKLY as it pertained to protecting myself from society. Somehow, I knew that being gay was not my fault, but despite that people WOULD fear and hate me for it. And believe me, that is HEAVY for a kid to take on; it is devastating reality (like war) all around you, raining down upon you (relentlessly so). It is HARD to deal with.

That is what this young gay kid had to face, in the early 70's. It was hide it, or else. And of course, while I made myself fit-in and was accepted by most people no problem, the role-play (pretending to be straight) took its toll. And thank God I worked through those difficulties also.

I could go on for a VERY LONG TIME, sharing the views of a 50+ year old gay man who has traveled the world and literally interacted with 10's of thousands of people in important ways. Even so, I'm just here to say to anyone who WANTS to know or NEEDS to know...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLs4NCgvNU&feature=related"]IT DOES GET BETTER.[/ame]

If you are a young person struggling with homosexuality or just life in-general... find a number to call, and TALK about what is bothering you. We ALL struggle in life, but I can personally say that things get 'better' if that is what we want. DON'T GIVE UP.

And GAY PEOPLE: Above all, don't listen to ANYONE who would tell you that your being "gay" is your problem or your fault. Don't believe that lie. People who say that, are just plain wrong about what they pull from reality.

Again, learn to TALK to someone that accepts you as a person. Someone who is trying to make you "straight", isn't the person who can relate to what you're going through. Maybe some people CAN stop being 'gay', but most of us cannot.

Peace to you all.

 

Despite what you think about this, don't expect me to stand by, and watch the uncaring and hateful scapegoat and dehumanize homosexual people.