Gaza: From someone who's seen for himself.

So far, Thehumankind is who comes closer of being a thinking zionist on this thread - please don't make that he's gone, alexa. I can sense good will there, and even rarer, a brain.

(Most other ones here are akin to FPS-addicted 11-years old, but packing the accumulated frustrations of the 40-y old ones. Guys, would you care to learn a few things that happenned and happens in global history instead of watching Fox or hysterical talk-radio and naively believe that it will make you informed enough to engage an intellectual debate here? Get relevant, for crying out loud) [/rant]

For the comprehension of this war, it is essential, IMO, to understand (among other things) this one question:

How would peace benefit Israel?

Israel is on the "already won" side of "war"; Their ennemies have no army, no direct allies, and dwindling territories. If Israel was at peace, it couldn't steal land in the West Bank, huh? Because that would be an act of war... but by maintening war status, Israel is, in lawyer parler, "legitimized" in seizing lands, even in time in relative peace - exactly what happening right now in the West Bank.

Israel could have such a ridiculous thing as unilateral peace as soon as it decides it - it just have to call on the UN to set a demilitarized zone and then that's it - The UN would take care of the occasional act of criminality that are ensure to endure up to thre generations, from one side or another, without any of these nations taking it as casus belli anymore. Like in Cyprius. Et voila.

For Palestine, the options are more like "I rape you - if you resist I rape you and hit you".

Israel thrives on war. It gets lebensraum from it, easy military training from an unlimited sea of underequipped untermenschen and holy war, a vast macrotech industry, and billions of sheikels from foolish, foolish goyim just to continue it. As a plus-value, they don't have real ennemies, military speaking, unless one reaches out for Iran, far in the East - they encour no risks, none at all (and if they ever do, well, they can make the mother of all terrorism-suicide with their nukes).

The day this question will be asked on NA networks, there will be no more of this convenient war.

 

As you are probably aware, there was an anti-Israeli march in Tel Aviv a few days ago and only a small percentage of those demonstrating were Jewish Israeli's. I saw a young Israeli Jewish woman being interviewed on one of the news channels yesterday who claimed her "friends" had effectively disowned her since she came out in favour of the Palestinian cause. I think you will find this kind of thing is not untypical in Israel.

I certainly think that these kinds of Jewish Israeli's who hold these kinds of views are marginalized within a country where there seems to me to be an all pervasive and visceral anti-Muslim hatred in Israeli society in general. The manic 'drum-beating for war' atmosphere where dissenters are marginalized seems to me to be akin to McCarthyism.

My view is that the apparent inability of many informed and progressive Jews to stand up and be counted is probably illustrative of a general atmosphere of fear within this terrorist rogue state. A survey released on Monday does not put the Jewish people of Israel in a good light.

For me, its findings reinforce the underlying totalitarian nature of the society predicated on an education system that effectively brainwashes its people from nursery school through to university.

I recently saw a youtube clip of Ilan Pappe who made a speech from a Canadian university campus. Pappe is a Jewish Israeli professor who lectured in Israel. He claims that the intellectual discourse, parameters and terms of reference for debate and discussion in Israel are inherently restrictive.

Pappe argues that the intellectual and media 'debate' in Israel is predicated on an entire charade in which Israeli society is deemed to be either a) tormented by people who want to give back the Gaza and the WB to the Palestinian's and allow them to create an independent state, or b) annexationist Israeli's who do not wish to have any peace with the Palestinian's.

These two facets, Pappe asserts, are part and parcel of a constructed fable - a fabricated narrative in which genuine debate about Palestinian nationhood, independence or self-determination is non-existent.

Pappe claims that there only exists a tactical 'debate' on two issues:

1) How best to sell to the world the old Zionist wish to have all or most of Palestine with as few Palestinian's as possible, and:
2) What is the best way of achieving it?

That, according to Pappe, is the 'debate'. In other words, it essentially comes down to deciding how many Palestinians can live in a Jewish space. What the Israeli state, through its propaganda arm, is doing is selling to the world a false reality based on deceit and illusion.

What all this indicates is the so-called peace process (as Avi Shlaim said all process and no peace) isn't moving anywhere because the Zionists never intended it to move anywhere. The Israeli formula developed in 1948 continues today.

Anyway, here is the results of the (depressing) survey I mentioned above that can be viewed here: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...1#.U9bOkqijL-k

Ninety-one percent (91%) of Israeli Jews support Israel's campaign against the people of Gaza and just 4.2% believe the operation is a "mistake."

The survey also revealed that 85% of respondents would only support a cease-fire agreement if Israel eliminated every Hamas rocket and destroyed the full network of terror tunnels before agreeing to do so.

Seventy-seven percent (77%) of Israeli Jews polled "very strongly support" Operation Protective Edge's airstrikes on Gaza; 17% "support" the airstrikes; and 4.5% had "weak support" for the airstrikes. Just 1.5% of respondents opposed the airstrikes on Gaza.

Similarly, 50% "strongly support" the IDF's ground offensive in Gaza; 28% "support" the ground campaign and 14% have "weak support" for the campaign. By contrast, only 9% of respondents oppose sending ground troops into Gaza.

Eighty-two percent (82%) of respondents "strongly disagree" with the statement "Israel launching Operation Protective Edge was a mistake"; 11% only "slightly disagree." Just 7% of respondents "agree" or "strongly agree" with that statement.

As to the operation's success, 74% of respondents overall believe the IDF is "achieving its goals" in Gaza; of those, 23% "very strongly agree" and 51% "strongly agree." Just 22.5% of respondents were neutral on the issue and only 3% believe the operation is failing.

Ninety-five percent (95%) of respondents said the operation has "made them proud of the IDF, the State of Israel, and the Jewish people," and only 2% disagreed with that statement.

Netanyahu has a very high approval rating, according to the survey: 65% are "very satisfied" with Netanyahu's handling of the operation, 20% are "satisfied" with his leadership and only 10% are "not satisfied" with the Prime Minister.

 

I refer you to post 124

 

Of cource Islamo is not a race, don't be rediculous with your false race baiting acussations. Islamo is the reality of Islam as we now see it in Gaza (and other places). Islamo's are the warmongering losers who reject peace and ceasefires and use periods of non-fighting to re-arm and resupply war materials from Islamo nations. That is the reality that I so clearly get and that Obama voting leftists do not get. I do not if you are one of those, but I can say what it looks like.

 

It is the truth. I can not correct delusion without medication and training through a recovery process. In other words, 'can't fix stupid'.

- - - Updated - - -

Democracy now? Get real, got a real news source that is not a commie propaganda site?

 

That is what the Islamo support network hopes. What say you, is it working? The above post suggests yes. Who started this whole thing by murdering 3 Israeli boys? Islamo's. Who fired the first rockets in the conflict? Islamo's. Who rejected many peace and cease fires? Islamo's.

Reality and truth meets lies and propaganda and destroys it.

 

Yes which is why your BS points above have been repeatedly debunked on here already.

 

Doesn't Israel have a police force? Criminals should be hunted down and prosecuted.

1300 Gazans dead.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/middle-east/609561

 

Here's an article on the Israeli-Hamas conflict that I think you will agree with.

It's especially nice to see this coming from Haaretz.

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.608008?v=9D3E8191C0D2AFBE8F367C467342F6EB

 

It’s true that in 2005, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon withdrew Israel’s more than 8,000 settlers from Gaza. (At America’s urging, he also dismantled four small settlements in the West Bank). But at no point did Gaza become its own country. Had Gaza become its own country, it would have gained control over its borders. It never did. As the Israeli human rights group Gisha has detailed, even before the election of Hamas, Israel controlled whether Gazans could enter or exit the Strip (In conjunction with Egypt, which controlled the Rafah checkpoint in Gaza's south).

Israel controlled the population registry through which Gazans were issued identification cards. Upon evacuating its settlers and soldiers from Gaza, Israel even created a security perimeter inside the Strip from which Gazans were barred from entry. (Unfortunately for Gazans, this perimeter included some of the Strip’s best farmland).

“Pro-Israel” commentators claim Israel had legitimate security reasons for all this. But that concedes the point. A necessary occupation is still an occupation.

That’s why it’s silly to analogize Hamas’ rockets—repugnant as they are—to Mexico or Canada attacking the United States. The United States is not occupying Mexico or Canada. Israel — according to the United States government — has been occupying Gaza without interruption since 1967.

 

Debunked? No. There has been an acceptence of a prefered wrong point of view. But no debunking whatsoever. I am right, as always.

Just because Democracy Now trots out some Islamo who pretends to be a victim because his Islamo brothers were killed in no way challenges the reality that Islamo Palestinians and warmongerers and aggressors and they have rejected all calls for peace and cease fires.

Article 11 of the Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/07/28/hamas-seeks-destruction-israel/13275349/

 

You sure don't know the history of peace efforts..........

 

It now seems the death toll will exceed Cast Lead of 2008/09. I fear that if Israel is not brought to task it will deem that it's been given the green light to ethnically cleanse even greater numbers of Palestinian's. Up until this point, the historical trajectory has been one in which they have killed Palestinian's incrementally. But this latest phase could, in my view, mark a turning point and therefore we could see a return to the mass systematic killings of the kind experienced during the Nakba/Plan D period.

 

Thppppt, Israel police have no jurisdiction in Gaza. Plus, Islamo actions are war, not criminality.

 

Utterly vile and disgustingly repugnant post from an apologist for child killers.

 

I know that Islamo's have rejected them all, either by deed or violations of the peace agreements statutes intended to prevent arming.

I note that you did not comment on the Hamas Charter Chapter 11 that calls for the destruction of Israel.

 

No you don't but you are a propagandist's wet dream.

 

Really? Hummm, I think there is a missing perception that the Islamo's are the 'child killers' of their own people because they use places where families and children are as emplacement locations for their weapons or storage of their rockets. And then the funny thing is that there are people stupid enough to believe that bovine scat.

 

Oh please. I expect more than that Margot 2. Attempted insults with no substantiation of your own position, such as it is.

 

I'm putting you on ignore.

 

Cool! A sure sign that I have defeated an Obama voter and supporter of butchery of the Islamo's.

 

A smoke trail from a long-range rocket lingers near Gaza City. Members of Congress have asked the United Nations to eliminate the stockpile of rockets held by the military wing of Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/07/25/what-would-happen-if-hamas-lost-all-of-its-rockets


Islamic Jihad claimed its militants fired a Fajr 5 which crashed into the sea off Tel Aviv on Thursday.

Israel frequently reports the steady barrage of rocket fire it has had to endure, totaling 11,000 since it withdrew from Gaza in 2005, according to the Israeli Defense Forces.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/17/250199.html



You must have missed these.........

 

Since you didn't read the article, that's exactly what it said- that in no way did Gaza become anything resembling a country, not even being able to control it's own borders. Don't be jumping to contusions.

 

I know..........

 

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