General Info for all Politically critical statements

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lucky1knows, Sep 13, 2022.

  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    ]Examples? Wild generalizations are meaningless.[/quote]
    This is a good point
    You're close to making a good point, Lucky.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  2. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    When Obama was teaching his college law students how bad and wrong the Constitution was, and when he declared a week before being elected president that he was about to "fundamentally change the United States of America," rest assured he was not referring to one or two little amendments. He might not have had a specific plan or strategy in mind, but one cannot fundamentally change the country without first throwing the Constitution (which he despised anyway) out. Tweaking is NOT fundamentally changing.
    I can't think of any time when Trump violated the Constitution.
     
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  3. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense, it's not the right that's imposing fascist-like laws and restrictions.
    And yet the left is responsible for most of the actions that comprise fascism - strengthen the power of the government and emasculating the freedoms of the people, stifling innovation, actually dialog and classifying half the population as "enemies of the state".
    Based on what I observe you have no concept of what conservatives propose.[/quote]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
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  4. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. When was your last post that actually tried to discuss an issue with a conservative?
    Baloney - you confuse LW dogma with "data, facts and truth" - that's the foundation of the problem.
     
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  5. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    i have followed politics for 50 years plus, politics over the last few years has just gotten so nasty and juvenile i almost have just given up on anytype of debate...
    from my viewpoint this modern hostility started with newt gingrich, while i think it may be true that the major media leans to the left, these rightwing media sites distribute hostile untruths to a much greater extent, then forum posters just parrot that information believing they are making a point
     
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  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    I was going to point out the same thing. So its not just you that see the contradiction.
     
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  7. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line though is that Obama did nothing about changing the Constitution. Talking about it is not wrong. A person that believes in Democracy (which Obama did) knows that it has to be voted on by the majority. Trump did something about it without using Democracy to accomplish it.

    By the way, this is my last post on this subject. I talk about politics that can affect the future and not about history. What is done is done and what is important is to change what is happening now. Proving blame for something in the past is useless as it cannot be changed.
     
  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course, you are basically correct. The problem comes from the fact that these exchanges become adversary- where for one to win, the other must lose, which quickly wipes out the rules of honor and rational discussion. I think this is like arguing with spoiled children, but allowing yourself to be drawn down to their level. It would be so critical if it were not going on at levels of leadership, such as in congress and the highest politics- and in the media, which used to pride itself on integrity and honesty in reporting. Lots of values have been disposed of by a lot of people in positions where they should be the examples of good character, and of course when leadership discards the rules, both legal and social, then there are no rules, and chaos replaces order.

    We need to find a way to put a stop to that, and I think it must start at the top- the people who make the rules must be accountable to the rules, and the consequences should be both prompt and sure. What we tolerate, we will get. Stop tolerating it, and the conduct will change.
     
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  9. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    In this life, there are people that are evil and there are people that are good. Perfect example is Hitler/Putin = evil and Mother Teresa and my wife = good.

    In the cases of evil being involved, hate is allowed, the same way that love is allowed in those cases where good is involved. These are "normal" human emotions that should "not be controlled" when evil and good are involved.

    In most cases, neither evil or good are involved but in those cases where evil is involved, you cannot reason hate out of the equation.

    end of story.
     
  10. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Hate is a wasted emotion reserved for the immature. It is not "normal " to carry unresolved hate and anger in life. Understanding will negate hate .
     
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  11. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    So this is how you wish to be treated?


    Your OP made sense—until you followed it up with self contradiction.
     
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  12. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    Understanding?

    How do you understand intransigence?
    How do you understand evil?
    How do you understand blindness-by-choice

    Explain that to me and I will listen.

    By the way, hate and love are emotions that usually are felt no matter what the mind says. In my case, I am have embraced emotions but have done it by researching them and understanding how they work and what causes the emotions. I have made it a point to understand the roots of the emotions so that I do not love those not worthy of love and not hate those not worthy of hate. I control those emotions (up to about 90%) so that I can be sure of who I am hating and who I am loving.

    Emotions are part of every human being and not something to avoid. In fact, just the opposite given that the opposite of hate is love and understanding those have allowed me to fall in love totally with my wife and with those in my life worthy of being loved.
     
  13. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    There is no contradiction at all. There is evil in the world and I do not mean that difference of opinion is evil. Evil is that action in which you have no respect for the life of others (like Putin and Hitler). When evil is involved, the only way to stop it is by destroying it. You cannot use morals, ethics, principles and humanity with them as the one that will be destroyed is you. Evil (when encountered) has to be attacked mercilessly. It is a fight between life and death and dying by the hands of evil is NOT an option. It does not make you into a martyr that stimulates others to follow you (meaning no good comes out from dying at the hands of evil). You need to stay alive so evil can be destroyed.

    Did understanding Putin's evil help anyone?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well.... if the immigration bill I mention, in which they reached a compromise whereby all parties involved had to give up much of their ideological positions in exchange for the good of the country, is not what you were looking for; then I'm afraid that, in your mind, there is no such thing as "compromise". Which is what ideologues promote among those who are unable to see beyond their partisanship.
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would compromise based on the fact that a fetus can feel pain at some point after 22 weeks of pregnancy. In cases of rape, incest or if the life or health of the mother is in jeopardy, she should come first despite of this. But I see no reason to allow causing pain to a fetus. At this point in scientific research, we understand that a fetus is incapable of feeling pain before 22 weeks. But research is limited by the fact that most testing on fetuses for research is unethical. So I would say 20 weeks provides a safe margin. That's half the pregnancy, and a good point of compromise.

    Nothing particularly significant happens at 6 months, so I don't see that as a reasonable threshold. Even though it's common for babies to survive after only 24 weeks, with proper care a fetus can survive earlier than that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  16. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    I think the more prudent start would be to recognize and curb one's hypocrisy!
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I asked how OP is defining compromise. OP explained: "Political Compromise always requires that you get something while giving something in return that the other side wants". So OP answered the question by replying with what they believe compromise is. You also replied to the same question, but you did not explain how you define compromise, you just gave examples of when compromise didn't happen... not sure why you think that helps anyone understand what your view of compromise is.
     
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  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm pretty sure it doesn't include things like, for example, abusing the power of the Governorship (like fascists did here in Florida) to punish a private business because they disagreed with the Governor. Or abusing the power of the Presidency to perpetuate themselves in power. Or rooting for the guy who steals Top Secret material and leaves it lying around in boxes, putting the nation's security at risk. Or to abuse the power of pardon to shield your accomplices in crimes you committed, or... anything like that.

    At least not the conservatives I remember from waaaay back... 7 or 8 years ago, before Trump. A different "Geological Era", in terms of right-wing politics.

    To me, all that, and much more that we have been seeing from the right lately, falls in line more with fascist regimes, than with conservativism. However, maybe you can show me Reagan or other true conservatives doing or endorsing those who do things like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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  19. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Refreshing thinking!
    Perhaps the greatest human failures are to understand self, so that you can develop the ability to understand others. Often that does not mean concluding they are reasonable, but understanding that they are not and have no capacity or intention of being so. All people have potential; some will never find or embrace it. Just the way it is.
    You sound like a person who has taken on the task of finding and understanding self.

    We won't all ever think alike, but I believe that if people are determined to know truth, most of them will eventually wind up in the same place. If.
     
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  20. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Again, quoting you…


    The “right” is all extreme and evil?

    You are new here, so I’m letting you know you are talking to a socialist—one of two practicing socialists on PF. But I can assure you neither the right or left are all extreme. Your OP gave me hope that there was some sanity left in politics at PF. But it was a false hope. Just more tribalism and extremism.

    Carry on.
     
  21. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I was correct - you have nothing but semi-ridiculous LW slogans, and jabberwocky.
     
  22. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    Evidently you do not have the ability to read well.

    I never have stated that the "right is evil". I stated that evil needs to be fought without constraints. Evil is found everywhere but more so in a scenario that allows evil to do its job better. An autocracy is such a scenario given that there are no rules limiting the actions done. A democracy, which is what the Democrats are pushing for, prevents evil from having a free rein because it is not one person that is allowed to decide anything, it is the majority that rules. Never is evil the majority because evil is a small part of the population. For every 100 people we meet, you might find 1 or 2 that are evil. As such, evil is able to grow where there are few limitations and has problems festering where limitations exist.

    As far as my own experiences are concerned, I have found repeatedly and for decades that I can have more rational conversations with the left than with the right. In simple words, rationality is more prevalent among the Democrats than among Republicans and this has nothing to do with the difference in party beliefs but with openness of mind. I often disagree with the left and yet when I talk about what I disagree with them, the conversation is usually based on data, facts, and intelligence. With the Right, more often than not it is all opinion and data and facts are thrown out the window from the get go.
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve directly quoted your posts using the PF quote function. There is no comprehension problem.

    Here is what I originally responded to from two contradictory posts of yours.



    When I pointed out the contradiction, YOU referred to evil here in your response.


    As I said, you started out well with the OP, but quickly spiraled down into the typical tribalism we see every day here. It’s of no consequence to me, your position isn’t unique nor does it impact my life in any way. I’m just pointing the inconsistencies out so others aren’t fooled by the OP.
     
  24. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Correct.
    ~ I'm not your therapist. Learning and growing are up to you — not the internet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  25. Lucky1knows

    Lucky1knows Well-Known Member

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    You talk about contradiction but do not clearly show what you believe is the contradiction. I explained in my last post that what you call a contradiction is not that. As such, you need to prove exactly what you believe is the contradiction, not just say it is.
     

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