General Patton after WW II: "We defeated the wrong enemy"

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by Flare, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    img_0074.jpg

    Let's discuss.
     
  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Put simply - he was wrong (if he actually said it, which is debatable).
    Germany was aggressively invading neighboring countries and attacking US shipping interests.

    Now maybe it could be argued that the US should have done more to keep the Soviets out of Eastern Europe AFTER the war.
     
  3. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    General Patton was somewhat a mentally disturbed person who got almost fired by General Eisenhower on a couple of occasions and he could have said anything at the spur of the moment. Patton is quoted saying that “we defeated the wrong enemy” when Berlin fell but you cannot find a decent source to confirm it. If he had said it, he would have meant that the Red Army, which took over East Germany and Eastern Europe, was the real enemy of America as the situation changed drastically at the onset of the Cold War.
     
  4. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Unfortunately you are wrong on that; after WW II Patton found out that he had been fighting for the wrong cause.

    Germany was not aggressively invading neighbouring countries. Matter of fact, Hitler didn't want war at all and had sent approx. 22 peace offers...

    https://ia801001.us.archive.org/12/...sPeaceOffers1933-1939ByDr.FriedrichStieve.pdf

    ...which Churchill all rejected.


    Germany invaded Poland because ethnic Germans were getting slaughtered in the Danzig corridor, which was former German territory which was cut off from them due to the Treaty of Versailles.

    However, UK and France had an agreement with Poland that if they were attacked, they would declare war to Germany... so it was a difficult situation. What to do... let thousands of Germans get slaughtered and having hundreds of thousands fleeing towards Germany? Or go in to protect them? The latter they did.
     
  5. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Mentally disturbed?

    What about John F. Kennedy?

    13933610.jpg
     
  6. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Dude - really? Churchill rejected peace offers? That must have been quite the trick considering Chamberlain was Prime Minister at the start of the war and in fact, GAVE IN to Hitler's demands in the Munich Agreement.

    And blaming the war on problems in Poland? Then why did Hitler invade Czech territory? He meant to invade Poland and just missed? And if he was just trying to protect German citizens in Poland, why did he invade Denmark and Norway?
    And what was he doing invading North Africa?

    Hitler didn't want war, my ass.
     
  7. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Besides sending dozens of peace offers to Poland, UK and France, he also made peace offers in public speeches:

    Hitler's Peace Offer About World Disarmament 1933

    [video=youtube;1gxHH3II-0U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxHH3II-0U[/video]

    Hitler's call for peace 1939

    [video=youtube;-zTQSZoRx6Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zTQSZoRx6Y[/video]

    Adolf Hitler wanted peace and an alliance with England

    [video=youtube;MHT-3dpV-so]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHT-3dpV-so[/video]
     
  8. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Chamberlain was 'too soft', so later they installed Freemason Churchill to do the 'job'. I see you have as signature "History is written by the victors - Churchill".... well, who won that war and got to write history you think?
    It sure weren't the Germans. But the correct history is surely to be found, under mountains of allied propaganda.

    In 1919 the Allies at Versailles formed a new country called Czechoslovakia, of which the population consisted out of:

    - 6,7 million Czechs
    - 3,1 million Germans
    - 2,0 million Slovaks
    - 700.000 Hungarians
    - 460.000 Ukrainians

    With Czech violence on the rise against ethnic German minorities, Sudeten Germans were forced to call for reunification with Germany.

    Czech president Edvard Benes in stead ordered martial law on the Sudeten provinces, so Hitler got angry about that and threatened to go in with force.
    Eventually he got to the table in the so called "4 power conference" with Chamberlain included, avoided war and got the territories back.

    Hitler never wanted to invade Africa, but it was Mussolini who messed up there as he wanted to take over Egypt and ran into trouble with the superior Brits.
    So Hitler decided to help him out and dispatched the Afrika Korps under Erwin Rommel. Besides that, Hitler thought it was a good secondary objective to take over the Suez and cut off Britain from it's colonies.
     
  9. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    I do know if he said that. My dad was an absolute fan of Gen Patton starting from the point in time that elements of Patton,s Army came to the gates of the Firced Labor camp where the two people who would become my parents were inmates. By that morning the Nazi guards started to run away and when an armored vehicle showed up at the gate it was a 4' 11" young woman barely out of her teens who went to the gate to see what color the star was - so when she went back in to the office where the inmates had just taken over she was the one to tell the big brave men hanging out in the office that the star was white! So the brave guys cheered that they were safe it,s the Americans. It was later determined that it was Patton,s army.

    My dad from that day on was a huuuuuge Patton fan.


    What my dad said that Patton said was that I will paraphrase , ,'''. Now that we are done with the Nazis let,s arm the German we need to go and destroy the Russians.''' As much as I agree with the bold idea that
    We should gave destroyed the Russians it was not at all practical or hardly probable that American would have stood for another 4 years of war. We had not yet defeated Japan and we did not have enough nuclear bombs to drop on Japan and on Russia.

    What we could have done if our state department was not infested with Communists and if FDR' s inner a divisor was not a Communist was not to have given thevRussians so much material support and not given them the right to take over Eastern and most of Central Europe.

    Patton obviously knew that FDR talked Churchill into letting the Russuan,s take over most of Europe and Patton knew that thecRussians were barbaric savages and he knew that intellectually we should have destroyed them right after we defeated the Germans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hitler and peace offers?? Come on guy I was born at night but it was not last night.
     
  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously man he wanted peace at hus terms. He wanted the Danzig Corridor back from Poland and Alsaisse_ Lorraine, and the Saar, and and and and and
     
  11. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Yes, he made over 20 peace offers to avoid the war, but all were rejected. Haven't you checked the link in the post of mine you quoted?
    He even made several peace offers in public, of which you can see some in post # 7.


    Matter of fact: World Jewry declared war on Germany only 2 months after Hitler got into power already, back in 1933:

    judea_declares_war_on_germany.jpg

    That's what lit the fuse to what later would become WW II.
     
  12. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Nope. Hitler did not want war, but the Polish were slaughtering Germans who lived in former German territory by the thousands. Hundreds of thousands were fleeing to Germany.
    Hitler tried to negotiate with the Polish government, but they didn't listen and at a certain point even halted all negotiations. From that moment on Hitler decided to move in with force.

    Reason Why Germany Invaded Poland

    [video=youtube;TEgLGc5qHto]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgLGc5qHto[/video]

    Problem was that France and the UK had an agreement with Poland that if they were attacked, they would declare war on Germany... Hitler thought he could convince them otherwise, but that was in vain and so war was declared.

    Some time later Germans found out that hundreds of thousands of British and French troops were massing up for an invasion, so then Germany went on the offense and Blitzkriegt ("Lightning war") them to the beaches of Dunkirk, from which 300.000 soldiers were evacuated and leaving all their stuff behind. Hitler could have wiped them out there, but he showed restraint and hoped the UK would surrender as there was a much bigger problem forming in the East, as the Soviets were building up a massive invasion force. However, Churchill did not want peace and continued the war.
     
  13. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Most notably, there was also a secret protocol to the pact, revealed only after Germany's defeat in 1945,[82] although hints about its provisions were leaked much earlier, e.g., to influence Lithuania.[83] According to said protocol Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland were divided into German and Soviet "spheres of influence".[82] In the north, Finland, Estonia and Latvia were assigned to the Soviet sphere.[82] Poland was to be partitioned in the event of its "political rearrangement"—the areas east of the Pisa, Narev, Vistula and San rivers going to the Soviet Union while Germany would occupy the west.[82] Lithuania, adjacent to East Prussia, would be in the German sphere of influence, although a second secret protocol agreed to in September 1939 reassigned the majority of Lithuania to the USSR.[84] According to the secret protocol, Lithuania would be granted the city of Vilnius – its historical capital, which was under Polish control during the inter-war period. Another clause of the treaty was that Germany would not interfere with the Soviet Union's actions towards Bessarabia, then part of Romania; as the result, Bessarabia was joined to the Moldovan ASSR, and become the Moldovan SSR under control of Moscow.[82]

    It was actually a planned partition of Poland between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact or German–Soviet Non-aggression Pact had a secret protocol attached to it, by which the two countries agreed to divide Poland into their respective spheres of influence. But it looked as if Hitler suddenly invaded Poland in a moment of insanity back then.
     
  14. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Yes, while there were big problems arising in the Danzig corridor, in the summer of 1939 Hitler made a deal with Stalin so he would be sure no-one else would interfere when he would attack Poland in September.
    And indeed, the plan was to split up Poland between them... didn't matter that much either, since a large chunk of the nation belonged to Germany anyway (West Prussia), as it was taken away from them after Versailles AND even cut off Germany from East Prussia which was still theirs.

    You can see what territory (corridor) I'm talking about between Germany and the dotted line on the map:

    germany_poland_versailles.gif

    Keep in mind tho: UK and France only declared war on Germany for invading Poland and not on the Soviets... don't you think that's very strange?
     
  15. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Justice For Germans

    [video=youtube;SsjaRBk-W68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsjaRBk-W68[/video]
     
  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously hiw can a stateless dope declare war on anything?
     
  17. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Well, World Jewry is VERY mighty and by declaring a boycot on all German goods worldwide, and Germany still being VERY poor at that time due to Versailles Treaty, that would have meant millions of Germans starving due to hunger.

    Have a listen to Benjamin Freedman, an ex-Zionist jew who held a speech about it back in 1962, as he explained the boycott and what the consequences would have been:

    How International Jewry declared "Holy war" on Germany

    [video=youtube;rygcAoiw_lI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygcAoiw_lI[/video]

    In order to bypass this boycot, the National Socialists came to an agreement with the Zionists: the Ha'avara agreement.

    This agreement stated that Germany would transport all the Jews from Germany to Palestine, with all their belongings and money in their bankaccounts.
    That actually all went well, but came to a halt when the war broke out in 1939 and Germany needed all resources for the war-effort.
     
  18. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    So what do you think of Kennedy's remarks?

    View attachment 44980
     
  19. PolakPotrafi

    PolakPotrafi Banned

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    Hitler didn't want war?

    He even invaded his ally of Finland, during the Lapland war, not to mention he invaded countries like the Netherlands, Norway, or Denmark which were rather pacifist.

    There's no evidence of Polish mass murdering Germans, not until AFTER WW2 had broke out, like in Bromberg Massacre where 300, or so Germans were killed, which was provoked by local Germans who had were collaborating with Nazi Germany to kill Polish.

    On the inverse, there's evidence of Nazi Germans mass murdering Polish, BEFORE WW2, like in Operation Tannenberg, where local Germans living in Poland had started collaborating with Nazi Germany to mass murder Polish, starting BEFORE Nazi Germany had invaded Poland.
     
  20. PolakPotrafi

    PolakPotrafi Banned

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    Prussians were originally a Baltic Tribe like Lithuanians, before Germans came in, and mass murdered the real Prussians, stole their name, and stole their land.

    The lands Poland took from Germany following WW1, were majority Polish, because Polish had lived in them a long time before Germans came in, and stole them from Poland in the Partitions of Poland.

    For example Poznan is where Polish King Mieszko the founder of modern Poland was born, and baptized, this city was majority Polish from the 900's to the 1900's.

    Now, you tell me why Germans were entitled to this land?
     
  21. PolakPotrafi

    PolakPotrafi Banned

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    So, why did Nazi Germany mass murder 200,000 Polish in Warsaw, during the Warsaw Uprising, when Germany had not had been part of Germany prior to WW1.

    This clearly outlines that Nazi Germany was pushing for Lebensraum, rather than attempting to take back what they saw as their land.

    It's clearly outlined in Generalplan Ost, that the Polish nation would be destroyed, with the majority of Polish killed, or deported to Siberia, with only a minority of Polish to be forcibly Germanized.
     
  22. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    That's a lot of different subjects you're pulling up there, but I'll try to answer them shortly:

    - Netherlands were invaded in 1940 because they weren't that neutral as the UK used their airspace for bombing-runs. Besides that, a massive French/British invasion force was forming in France and the heavily fortified Maginot Line was in the way, so the Germans decided to bypass it by going through Holland and Belgium.

    - The English also wanted to invade Norway (just as they invaded Iceland as well), and the Germans couldn't afford to have the Brits over there, while they had to take on the Soviets in the East. So it was more a tactical decision.

    - Finland, which was an ally of Germany, entered peace negotiations with the Soviet Union in 1944. Germany saw that as betrayal and therefore occupied the territory, and ended up fighting Finland, which was assisted by the Soviets.

    - You have seen the pictures of the Danzig massacres in the video you quoted.

    Could you post some evidence of Operation Tannenberg?
     
  23. PolakPotrafi

    PolakPotrafi Banned

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    Oh, okay Finland by negotiating peace with Soviets, some how called for war.

    WTF?

    That clearly proves that Nazi Germany wasn't war mongering, and always innocent. Hahaha.
     
  24. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    this is true, Germany was forced to give a lot of their land to the new state of Poland

    [​IMG]
     
  25. PolakPotrafi

    PolakPotrafi Banned

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    Bromberg Massacre happened AFTER WW2 had begun, and only killed 300, or so Germans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenberg

    Operation Tannenberg (German: Unternehmen Tannenberg) was a codename for one of the extermination actions by Nazi Germany that was directed at the Polish nationals during the opening stages of World War II in Europe; part of the Generalplan Ost for the German colonization of the East. The shootings were conducted with the use of a proscription lists (Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen), compiled by the Gestapo in the span of two years before the 1939 attack.[1]

    The top secret lists identified more than 61,000 members of the Polish elite: activists, intelligentsia, scholars, actors, former officers, and others, who were to be interned or shot. Members of the German minority living in Poland assisted in preparing the lists.[1] It is estimated that up to 20,000 Germans living in Poland belonged to organizations involved in various forms of subversion.[2]

    Operation Tannenberg was closely followed by the Intelligenzaktion, a second phase of the Unternehmen Tannenberg directed by Heydrich's Sonderreferat from Berlin. It lasted until January 1940. In Pomerania alone 36,000–42,000 Poles including children were killed before the end of 1939.[3]

    Polish teachers from Bydgoszcz guarded by members of Volksdeutscher Selbstschutz before execution
    The plan was finalized in May 1939 by the Central Office II P (Poland). Following the orders of Adolf Hitler, a special unit dubbed Tannenberg was created within the Reich Main Security Office (Reichssicherheitshauptamt). It commanded a number of Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD formed with Gestapo, Kripo and Sicherheitsdienst (SD) officers who were theoretically following the local Wehrmacht commanders. Their task was to track down and arrest all the people listed on the proscription lists exactly as it has been compiled before the outbreak of war.[4]

    The first phase of the action occurred in August 1939 when about 2,000 activists of Polish minority organisations in Germany were arrested and murdered. The second phase of the action began on September 1, 1939, and ended in October, resulting in at least 20,000 deaths in 760 mass executions by Einsatzgruppen special task units with some help from regular Wehrmacht (armed forces). In addition, a special formation was created from the German minority living in Poland called Selbstschutz, whose members had trained in Germany before the war in diversion and guerilla fighting (see: Deutscher Volksverband, the German People's Union in Poland).
     

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