Germany plans tank sales to Saudi Arabia

Germany advanced from fifth to third place among the biggest arms sellers between 1998 and 2009, even though a previous center-left government pledged in 2000 to pursue a "restrictive'" policy on exporting defense technology. from Spiegel Online

Here's the entire story:

Germany is prepared to deliver modern "Leopard" battle tanks to Saudi Arabia in a reversal of its decades-old policy not to supply heavy weapons to the authoritarian kingdom.

According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, the German security council, in which Chancellor Angela Merkel, Defense Minster Thomas de Maizière, and Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle are represented, last week approved the deal in principle. The Saudis are interested in purchasing more than 200 units of the most modern Leopard version, the Type 2A7+.

German defense companies including Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Rheinmetall and many supply firms, are hoping for a deal worth billions of dollars because the Saudis are aiming to buy brand-new tanks rather than used ones.

Riyadh had initially negotiated with Spain where the company Santa Bárbara, part of a US engineering group, makes Leopard tanks under license. But now it appears that a large number of the tanks to be purchased will be made in Germany.

In recent decades, various German governments had turned down Saudi Arabian requests to buy Leopard tanks by arguing that such deals might endanger Israel's security. But Israel's high-tech military no longer sees Saudi tank units as a threat.

Saudi Military Helped Put Down Protests in Bahrain

Nevertheless, the kingdom has not been peaceable of late. In Bahrain, Saudi forces helped to crush protests during the Arab Spring.

The "Leopard" is one of many weapons systems being exported by Germany, and the government is helping manufacturers to sell their wares around the world. India, for example, plans to buy 126 fighter jets worth €11 billion, and German ministers have been banging the drum for Eurofighters in meetings with Indian officials.

Even highly indebted Greece likes to buy weapons made in Germany, such as submarines or "Leopard" tanks. Athens has also been pondering buying Eurofighter fighter jets.

Some 80,000 people are employed in the German defense sector. The Bundeswehr, Germany's armed forces, has also been involved in the international arms trade through the sale of used tanks.

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), the main buyers of German weapons systems in the years 2006 through 2010 were:

Greece (with a share of 15 percent)

South Africa (11 percent)

Turkey (10 percent)

South Korea (nine percent)

Malaysia (seven percent)

SIPRI said that Germany advanced from fifth to third place among the biggest arms sellers between 1998 and 2009, even though a previous center-left government pledged in 2000 to pursue a "restrictive'" policy on exporting defense technology.

German exports have in fact doubled in the past 10 years and Germany's share of the world market rose to around 11 percent in the period between 2006 and 2010. Many of those deals had been approved by Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's government before it was voted out of office in 2005. Only the US (30 percent) and the Russians (23 percent) export more.

 

I wouldn't worry about it... The Saudi leadership is among the most stable, sensible and benevolent in the ME.

Their interests are in peace and the economic and social progress of the people.

 

Kind of hard to see that when they've been killing so many of their civilians.

 

More hypocrisy from the West....

 

Today's book review from the WSJ-

"The Eleventh Day" (Random House, 624 pages, $30) a detailed chronicle by the British journalists Anthony Summers and his wife, Robbyn Swan. But the book's essential contribution to the annals of the attack is its painstaking examination of questions the 9/11 Commission finessed in its 2004 report and in its newly published update: Did Saudi princes, charities or the military fund bin Laden and his hijackers, help them after they reached the U.S., and withhold intelligence that might have thwarted the attack or clarified the investigation afterward?

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudi as, of course, was bin Laden. With American airspace still closed, dozens of Saudi royals and members of bin Laden's extended family were airlifted back to Riyadh, most after only perfunctory questioning by the FBI. And just two days after the attacks, President Bush was smoking a cigar on the Truman balcony of the White House with Prince Bandar, the Saudi ambassador and man about Washington, in the company of Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice.

Pureeing their own research with published sources, Mr. Summers and Ms. Swan confect a circumstantial case involving protection money paid by members of the huge royal family to keep bin Laden's terrorism outside the kingdom's borders, intercession by Saudi cultural agents—likely spies—to help two of the hijackers in California, and stonewalling by Saudi intelligence after the attacks.

Provocatively, a 28-page section of the findings of the Joint Congressional investigation of 9/11 dealing with the Saudi connection was redacted on national security grounds, Mr. Summers and Ms. Swan report, by order of the White House. Former Florida Sen. Bob Graham, the one-time chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee who headed the joint inquiry and is no liberal firebrand, told the authors that the Saudi government and elite helped some of the hijackers, if not all. The authors quote an official who saw the text before it was eviscerated saying: "If the 28-pages were to be made public, I have no question that the entire relationship with Saudi Arabia would change overnight."

 

NO they didn't but the hijackers worked very hard to give it Saudi face.. don't be manipulated into doubting your friends.

 

I'm not manipulated into believing anything. I read lots of things in order to get a better view of things that frankly, I know little about and Germany, as well as other European nations are part of that.

I've made no opinion on this either way. I'm just throwing it out there to read and learn what others, with better knowledge of Europe have to say about it. After all, this is from a German publication and the book review is about a book written by 2 British authors.

It can't be thrown back at me that I'm trusting in ONLY American "propaganda."

Now, if I've made clear that I have NO opinion on this, I hope others will share their opinions in a civil and enlightening way.

 

This is great competition for the USA. The USA should also sell the greatest battle tank to Saudi Arabi. We all know they can afford it. Plus, it will assure the isrealies will not commit an attack when they get desperate in a few years. We all know what happened to the isrealies in the 1950s, when they tried to attack Saudi Arabia.

 

The US government should sell weapons to all the middle eastern nations, including Iran and Israel. The weapons industry creates jobs and reduces unemployment, helping to reduce the debt.

 

A singer called Meja knew the answer to this thread, why did the Germans all of a sudden decided to sell their tanks to Arabs?

well, lets hear it from Meja

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFv6aQNnmzc"]Meja - All About the money - YouTube[/ame]

 

Well, we've already sold them Typhoons and Eurofighters, might as well give them the rest of the collection.......

To be honest I believe arms sales are the last throw of the dice for the failing European economies, although it seems like a good idea now, give it 10 years at least, and we'll be regretting ever selling modern arms and military vehicles abroad.

We'll see India using them on Pakistan, Saudi Arabia using them on a weaker regional power... We'll see the foundations of stability snap, once the NATO alliance has lost significant influence and might due to financial restraints.

 

Don't be absurd.. Saudi Arabia isn't going to attack anyone.. Their interest is commerce and progress and peace.

 

Was I the only one to see that Greece as a broken state is the biggest arms buyier?

And people claim Germany is loosing money with greece.

 

Is that your own words or are you citing Goebels....

 

I know the SAG's mindset and intentions... Why don't YOU?

 

And now ?

The US politic is more dirty

 

So what's the big deal?

How much in dollar terms is the American/Israeli arms sales worth?

 

Obviously, it's about money. Insulting my intelligence really isn't helpful.

You might want to keep in mind that when you post here, (some of you, at least) those posts are being read by a larger audience than just the members here.

I'm interested in knowing about the geopolitics of this. For instance, does anyone think that the Saudis are afraid of the uprising they've seen going on around them this year? Could this have anything to do with their desire to bulk up their army?

 

LOLOL.. The Saudis have been investing 87% of their oil revenue in Hospitals, universities, desalination plants, ports, downstream manufacturing since 1975..

Where have you been?

They aren't agitating for war.. just protection.

 

Nothing scares the house of Saud more than the thought of losing their throne and democracy and power taken from them and given to the people, so yes they are afraid. Why else would they be in Bahrain torturing doctors and nurses and killing 14 year old children with tear gas canisters.

 

Every one of your posts have been condescending and rude. I don't understand why you can't be civil with someone who is asking for opinions in a civil way.

People like you criticize Americans who don't know anything outside our shores but when we ask (and obviously read) for information in order to understand better, we really rock your boat, don't we? We no longer fit in your little box and so you come out swinging at us.

Know that I will not acknowledge your posts again as long as they continue like this.

 

http://www.welt.de/die-welt/politik...en-Riad-Waffen-fuer-60-Milliarden-Dollar.html

 

While I can't read German, I gather from this article that the United States has sold something (planes?) to Saudi Arabia for $60million.

I wasn't singling out the Germans for selling to the Saudis. I am wondering if the Saudis feel pressure to increase their military in light of the so-called Arab Spring that has been occurring around them: either to protect themselves from other nations or from their own citizens.

The article I posted named the US as the biggest seller to the Saudis and I have no reason to doubt that at all. That fact has already been established.

I'd also like to thank you for not filling your post with a bunch of crap attacking me for looking for more opinions, information and a civil dialog.

 

It's actually $60 billion and is said to be the biggest US weapons deal ever made, involving fighter jets, helicopters and other things. This is good stuff for the US economy.

 

I've always found Margot to be very friendly and certainly not hostile towards Americans like some republicans. Democrats are also not the friendliest. The nice thing about America is that one has the freedom to be critical of American problems.