Germany's Refusal To Spend 2% On Defense

Just so you know, this almost never happens, you don't see this (nobody does this).

Ich kann kein Deutsch, aber ich benutze Google und Google übersetzt für mich, danke Google.
Die einzigen deutschen Wörter, die ich kenne, sind BMW, Lidl, Meredecs, VW, Audi, Porsche, Aldi und Addias. Autos und Econo-Supermärkte und ein Sportschuh. Ich hoffe, Sie zu einem guten Oktoberfest zu besuchen und Deutschland zu guten Bedingungen zu besuchen, aber ich danke Ihnen, dass Sie auf Englisch geschrieben haben.

 

With 5th largest economy globally / EU contributor power.
(We can afford the EU, we just don't want to pay for it).

Politically, sure, unstable, but economically, not so.

 

Freedom means having the power to say no. Remember that.

Because it's a no vote, doesn't mean people don't know, that means, they don't want.

I'd like the speaker to ask them to vote on No Deal Hard Brexit, and see how that does, but these votes are indicative and mean nothing legally because as things stand legally, we're looking at a crash out on the 12th of April and an EU emergency meeting on the 10th of April about a no deal Brexit.

But acting like what you've got means nothing to you, being ungrateful for the money UK's spent on the EU, like you'd have to pay now, and Germany's used to paying, but it's now all on you and France maybe, if France can afford it.
NATO has America wondering why you're leeching off of them tbh, because you're enjoying stability at their expense.

 

Well, I speak 4 languages, never been to college. Don't need google to write and speak English, French, Spanish, German and a little Portuguese.

All the companies you mentioned, own the UK, German companies.

Maybe if you had made the effort, past the Anglo arrogance, everybody speaks English, am English Wesen soll die Welt genesen, you would be able to educate yourself how the EU and the World works.

As I said good luck.

 

The UK is just the 5th largest economy, because of Europe.

Without Europe, it will drop way behind Poland or any other East European country
Third world level.

Love it, as long as you can.

 

It's because it's 5th that the EU had a contributor.

 

I studied Japanese.
日本語
and was required to learn a 2nd language in the school system here and transferred from French to Japanese and majored in Japanese.
I socially learned what I know of Spanish.

 

It became the 5th because of the EU.
When your Island joint it had a 3rd world economy and was begging to get of the parking lot with the sign " everything helps"
As your buddy from the US calls it, a s..... hole.

 

Aldi be like
'This one's cheaper'

Aldi are able to bring us savings of course because they're subsidised by the German State *citation needed* and Germany feel happy with their American paid for stability because they hate America.
Much like Poland love the EU, because they hate Germany, and want whatever the EU's got to give and more and feel it's owed to them for WWII, and, people tend to agree. UK and Poland both pay their NATO commitment, because they don't want to speak German either 'sorry'.
That's why you gotta love Poland; They'd take what they want, and if they don't like an EU policy, they'd ignore the rules and be like 'you owe, this is you paying us back'. Love it.

 

I am not a young German, I am the older one. Served 2 terms in the German Army, combat unit, front row.

I do not bite the hand, which was supposedly feeding me.
Germany was occupied country and was told what to do. Neither the US, France or the UK gave a crap about what Germany wanted, especially military, we were told.
West Germany was a buffer against the Warsaw Pact, because nobody wanted to have it at its border and probably the battle field.
The cold war was not its making, but the making of the 4 winning countries.
Their responsibility.
The occupation ended and finally released Germany, with the fall of the Wall.

Not biting the hand, what was done to West Germany was done for 1 single reason, have a bulwark against the Warsaw pact and the USSR.

Nothing else

 

Nothing there to really dispute. I think it lacks a little perspective though. Germany was occupied for a reason, lest we forget. Transforming Germany into a productive citizen of the world did take time, and it took more to transform the people there to understand their ability to govern themselves in a peaceful way. My observation is that the older folks in Germany understand this, accepted that their transformation was inherently good for their nation and the people. But, even during the darkest days at the end of the cold war, it was the young who fought against, railed against their peace as the Russians repeatedly tried to sow the seeds of discord there. We endured these temper tantrums because the rest of the NATO world understood the growing pains were a release that was necessary. The endless anti nuclear demonstrations, the massive strikes. We endured them because finally, those permissive acts allowed the west to understand the difference between what they were provided and what the East and Warsaw were subjugated by. And the difference was stark enough that the east eventually looked across their walls and found they couldn't endure their own subjugation any longer. And that fomented the changes necessary to over throw the Soviet.

But, we cannot forget what got us there to begin with, can we?

 

The allies did not transform W Germany into a productive citizens of the world, they assisted and helped. The transformation was done by the West Germans themselves. The adults of the war generations had seen the failed experiment of the Weimar Republic and what resulted.
They knew what they wanted and that failing again was not an option.
The German Government under Adenauer had to fight the allies for everything, even for statehood. It was given, after East Germany was founded, to counter that.
As I said I am one of the older Generation and despite having been a soldier in the Bundeswehr, I was one who demonstrated, too.
We railed against the occupier and how they ran rufshot.
I am grateful for what the US has done to help West Germany to rise from the devastation of WWII, I grew up in a burned out city, 85% destroyed. But it does not make me uncritical.
Strikes are part of Germany and were a important part of the transformation. The working population demanded their rights. Good for them and they got them.
Germany did not want the Pershing II, but it was rammed down and the Government had to accept it. That's when we demonstrated against it and the power of the occupier.
That was against the US, but against the occupier.

There is just one Episode were I put the US on that pillar of glory, Reunification.
Bush Sr., without his support it would have been very,very difficult.

Yes, we should never ever forget, otherwise we will make the same mistake again

 

A 2% commitment that doesn't exist is fullfilled by the UK... be proud for this bullcrap!

There is only an agreement that 2% should be met until 2024 ... but do we have 2024 yet? No ... so issue solved, demand is bullcrap and all the accusing on Germany with it too.

Facts, Facts, Facts ...

 

I would also say that older Germans ... by the way, I am 48 and served for 6 years and was in Somalia and in Bosnia ... often willing to believe American fairy tales.
In Germany predominantly an animosity prevailed over the USSR, from which then grew towards you a greater sympathy ... logical and understandable.
Of course Germany was totally down in 1945 and without your help that would never have happened, only what was the help? The Marshall Plan and the conversion from Reichsmark to D-Mark. The marshal plan was not, which unfortunately many Americans still believe, to have been a donation, but a credit to stimulate the reconstruction, which also had to be paid down to the penny with interest and was ... and disinterested that was not from the USA.
You have given us the necessary basic tools with which we have then created what exists today. Gratitude for it? Yes, it does exist ... but gratitude comes to an end when the one who is grateful, is blackmailed by the other, and is even verbally abused and punished for legitimately saying "no"! And you made that mistake ... first at Bush Jr., then quite massive since Trump is in the White House!

 

Yes, Germany does not yet meet the 2% ...
But it was in 2014 agreed to do that until 2024! Do we have 2019 or do we have already 2024?

Where in the NATO treaty is that all members have to meet the 2%? Answer: Nowhere ... it is a goal that should be fulfilled!

Germany spends on place 3 the most money on defense after the US and UK!
US = $ 636 billion (= 62% of the total worldwide military spending!)
UK = $ 63.5 billion
Germany = $ 47.6 billion
France = $ 43.2 billion
...

Germany has the fifth largest contingent in NATO after the US (1.6 million), followed by Turkey (720,000), UK (228,000) and France (227,000), with 179,000 active soldiers!

Germany has increased defense spending since 2014 by nearly $ 6 billion since the decision of Wales!

The statement of the expenditure in per cent of the GDP is total nonsense!
Simple example: GDP = 100 billion, of which 2% = 2 billion!
GDP increases to 110 billion due to good economy, spending of 2 billion remains, but only 1.8%!
GDP slumps to $ 90 billion, which remains 2 billion spending, but is now 2.2%!
Sorry, it makes no sense!

 

There are many, many, many, many, many plusses..... to America financing international peace?!

They have certainly been excellent neighbours to us Canadians!

 

They love to speak German, despite all the noise coming from Poland and all the other Eastern European countries, they line up to join the German joined force program.
Check it out, not just Eastern Europe, the Dutch, too. Belgium, too. France, too.
The Uk has its own program, with Scandinavia.
Look at the rapid forces and who leads it.

Why did NATO agreed on a 10 years plan ?
It does not make sense to just spent money, one has to develop the infrastructure first.
How much sense would it make to buy 500 tanks and than do not have the soldiers to run them, same for planes or what ever equipment.
You need the infrastructure to warehouse spare parts and supplies and so on and so on.
2% would mean an army of 300000, as it was in the cold war, with around a 1000 tanks.
Its not there.
The German army is in the same transition period the US had in the 70 and 80. From a draft army to a professional army.
What did the US army look like in that period ?
It was a joke. I served with them. Even a 6 month German recruit, was better than a guy from the US who had 2 years under its belt.
They were uneducated and came from the very bottom of US society.
1+1, what is that. That was the education standard. Criminal background no problem, just sign.
I was a pro, and used to the very high standards of the German draft Army, with what the US showed up, would have been not toilet cleaners.

Try to recruit in a superb economy, for a job like that. Even the US which has glorified its army, has a hard time to meat the goal and has serious man power problems.
The drop out rat is faster than what they can recruit.

Tomorrow I will carry a man to his last destination.
Son of a friend.
29 Years old, when he got killed in Afghanistan.
Green Barret, I got that honor, because I served in a unit in Germany, which was rather special forces and I had met his Grandfather who was a Green Barret and we became live long friends

We will carry him, grandpa, father, his siblings and I.

But what for?

I have no idea.

 

Brexit was passed with lies. If it cannot stand on it's own without lies to support it then it deserves to fail.

Brexit wurde wegen Lügen bestanden. Wo sind die 350 Millionen Dollar pro Woche, die Johnson versprochen hat, zum NHS zu gehen? Es existiert nicht, das hat es NIE getan

 

And why do you only spend 1.3% in Canada too then and do not please Trump to invest what he demands all shall do ... 2% and this right now?

 

Because we are cheap........ and Canada's political left love to think of themselves as being superior to Americans...... and because Prime Minister Pierre E. Trudeau was talked into making an off the scale error back in 1974 that set in motion the worst inflationary cycle in Canadian history...... (personally I think he was pressured into doing so by New York banking interests..... but I could be wrong)?!


Can we learn about the Washington Swamp from the Ottawa Swamp?




My guess is that he was pressured into doing this so that the same thing could be
arranged in the USA:




http://www.politicalforum.com/index...016-and-2004-campaign-writings-as-art.534297/

From 1940 to 1974 the Government of Canada put roughly half of the total money supply into the economy through loans issued through the federally owned Bank of Canada. Provincial and municipal governments could borrow the money to build roads, schools, hospitals and sewage treatment facilities at zero or one percent interest. In 1974 we changed our system and since that time a higher and higher percentage of all government debt is financed through loans issued through privately owned banks. At this time it is ninety eight percent. This policy may be great for our banking sector but it was estimated that in the one year of 1995 alone our federal government could have saved roughly SIXTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in interest payments if we had gone back to creating half the total money supply through these low interest rate loans issued through the bank that is OWNED BY ALL CANADIANS.

Considering that our deficit was approximately thirty billion dollars for that year, simply by changing back to an already proven monetary and banking system, we could theoretically have had a FEDERAL BUDGET SURPLUS OF THIRTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in 1995.


The massive cutbacks in the Canadian military, in health care, highway construction, social programs and education were profoundly affected by these accounting practices?


https://www.michaeljournal.org/arti...ce-our-country-debt-free-say-three-economists

 

Very interesting ... just funny that we Germans condemn an outrageous and unauthorized witch hunt ... although we should meet the 2% only in 5 years.

 

Too late.

In 5 years, it could be required to spend a higher % of GDP on defense while German's eventual 2% if delivered to its defense will no doubt fall short again.

You claim to be an informed individual, yet you fail to realise such a basic algorithm that pokes holes in what Germany's eventual plans are.
Also, "for someone who's so well informed", you seem to think it's acceptable to scrape by on a technicality; There should be new rules in NATO preventing anybody from scraping by on technicalities, insurances as it were, to insure support behind NATO and to not burden the US or any members of NATO.

 

HELL !!!!

What's not to understand there? The agreement says everyone has to do it in 5 years, that is until 2024!

Where is the contract or agreement that everyone has to invest immediately 2%?

THERE IS NO OBLIGATION ... AND NO NEED TO DO SO!!!

And just because this idiot in the White House and other idiots mean having to provoke Russia in order to have an enemy image again and then suddenly to be able to summon us to such a nonsense and to offend ... we do not do that for a long time!

Sorry, the dirty game of you was recognized! So never come back with this lie, we have to invest 2% immediately in the defense!

 

Why should be there a large goal to spend beyond 2%.
Just because of the US demanding it?

When I was in the West German Army, little WG had the largest standing Army deployed in Western Europe.
Around 300.000 man and 1000 tanks and all the other crap, airplanes and boats.
That was little West Germany at around 2%.

What ya think Germanies army would look like at 2%, even that cost has gone sky high, since than.

2% on a professional Army and a officer core with combat experience, really.
That's what you want in central Europe.
Ever thought about it.
Right now Germany is the economic power house of Europe, which you dislike so much, because of it.
Its army is a joke.
What do you think will happen if Germany will spent 2% and more again.
It will have the most powerful Army in Europe again, huge, even more powerful than it had during the Cold War.
Do you really want 1000 Leo II and the most advanced Army in Europe with the German Cross again ?
Really ?
According to you it already runs the show, with 200 Leo II, half of them broken down, with its economic power.
What do you think would happen, if 1000 Leo II, not broken down, would be sitting in Germany.

East Europe would piss its pans, including your Island.

Don't wake a giant, let it sleep.

 

It'll look like an army not so dependent on other NATO members in the event of a military strike against it, some would say it'll look prouder, others; That if Germany invested into its own defense rather than depending on others, that Germany would earn the right to bitch.

Only because Germany isn't strong enough to do this on its own, and thus depends on low wages in the EU for production, Schengen and Freedom of movement for tariff free production.
It's a powerhouse like China is, through exploitation. Everyone knows VW parts are made all over the EU in Europe and get assembled in Germany. Germany is also dependent on Europe using the Euro, because DM and other European currencies were too weak on their own.
On its own, Germany is a weak do nothing country, from WWII (that's right, history, I'm going there) to any other attempt to unite Europe, Germany has been too weak to powerhouse on its own.

I tell you what Germany, you become a powerhouse on your own, in this day and age, then I'd like it. You need Europe to make your money; Germany couldn't hack being a powerhouse without a continent to exploit. Prove me wrong Germany, prove me wrong.