God Given Rights

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by PatriotNews, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Every American citizen enjoys certain inalienable rights which are rights granted to us by God. This is a statement of fact that is not well understood by most Americans today. It is however, what makes America unique among the nations of the Earth and is the basis for American exceptionalism. We are blessed to be born in this country. Yet too many Americans are not properly taught the basic civics, history, philosophy, and sociology of America and have a complete lack of understanding of their rights and their duties as American citizens.

    The Founding Fathers were religiously devout for the most part, but more important, they were well educated and well aware of the political philosophies of The Enlightenment which was occurring during the time of the Revolutionary War. The reason for the revolution was freedom and liberty based on those theories presented in the writings of the philosophers of the time. This is something that is no longer taught for the most part and many American's are unaware of this.

    One of the basic principles of the traditional American philosophy is expressed in the Declaration of Independence which says we are ". . . endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights . . ." What this means is that every man is endowed at birth with rights that are unalienable because they are given to us by our Creator.

    My purpose here is not to prove the existence of God. My purpose here is not to debate that Judeo-Christian faiths or traditions are better than those of other faiths. My purpose here is not to say that you must believe in God in order to believe that the rights that we enjoy are God given rights; Quite the opposite in fact. You do not have to believe in God in order to understand and believe in God given rights.

    It is an important point to make for those of you who will undoubtedly argue that there is no God and therefore there are no "God given rights" that if our rights are not God given, then by what right do we proclaim such rights? Are our rights something we give to ourselves based upon social contracts? Are our rights in essence granted to us by our fellow man? If this is the case, then let it be understood, given man's inhumanity to man and his propensity towards tyranny of his fellow man, then you are in fact nullifying any claim to rights. Because you will have no rights other than those granted to you by a powerful ruling class or despotic ruler.

    My purpose here is to explore the basic civics, history, philosophy, and sociology of America and to educate both myself and others on God given rights in doing so. I would like to see us share the writings of both our Founding Fathers and the philosophers which gave them the impetus to revolt against the British crown. I would like to promote a better understanding of the Age of Enlightenment and share understanding and ideas about what it means for us today, and how we can pass along and best ensure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. I think without such understanding that we will one day lose our freedom and liberty. We have a duty to our children to pass along to them the God given rights which we all enjoy.

     
  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Our rights were given to us by Christians fighting and killing Christians from another country and then those rebels sat down and wrote
    up a Constitution giving us certain rights.

    So unless it is your theory that God favors one type of Christian or that God blesses certain firearms and canons but not
    others, then the idea that our Constitution rights are "god given" are rather silly.

    All it takes for god given rights to disappear real quick is a bigger, faster version of you with a club. We ain't so special.
     
  3. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Banned

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    Gods do not grant political rights. There are only rights that humans agree to recognize, whether they want to implicate gods or not.
     
  4. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly the type of misunderstanding of "God given rights" that Americans are lacking. Our rights are not granted to us by men, Christian or otherwise. They are not granted to us by the Constitution. They are unalienable rights granted to us by our Creator. They are rights that every man who has ever been born has had. They existed long before the Constitution.

    This is not my theory. It is the political philosophy which gave the Founding Fathers the impetus to write the Constitution, and to form a more perfect union.

    We are special. And the fact that our rights are God given is exactly what makes America exceptional among the nations of the Earth. You are right in the fact that all it takes for our rights to disappear is the tyranny of our fellow man. It is why the idea that our rights being granted by man is so antithetical to the American way of life.
     
  5. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I agree. If our rights are granted to us by other humans, then we have no rights at all, other than those rights granted to us by other humans. This is why it is important for us to understand the basic civics, history and philosophies of the founding of America which grants us God given rights.
     
  6. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Banned

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    As soon as men implicate gods in proclaiming political rights, the theocratic imperative necessitates that they, as a community, reciprocate in fulfilling the responsibilities the right-granting god(s) decree.

    In the Christian tradition, that means that democratic self-governance must address the divine mandates to feed the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless.
     
  7. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    Such as the right to destroy entire cities if they do not worship him?

    Deuteronomy 13:12-15 – "If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock."
     
  8. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    No. Our unalienable rights are inherent to us as human beings, our Foundational documents recognise these rights, they do not grant them.
     
  9. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    There is a reason this thread is under the Political Opinions and Beliefs forum. It is a discussion of political beliefs, not religious beliefs.

    So I just want to shut this down right away.

    If you want to debate religion, then go to the Religion Forum.

    This is not the place to express your religious prejudices or bigotry.
     
  10. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Nice post. Yes, that we all come from one God is the essence of our equality in American freedom. This is our nations founding spirit and principle whether we are aware of it or not. Clearly, equality doesn't mean equality of the station into which one is born. Whether an Iowa farmer or Maine fisherman or New York banker, everyones equality is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, We all have the right to free speech and to worship according the dictates of our own consciences. But equality does not mean the equal distribution of wealth or any other covetous afterthought. One has no more the right to anothers resources than to anothers wife or talent.
     
  11. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    You introduce religion in your first sentence.

    "I say our rights are God given, and you can't question that in my thread where I claim rights are god given ..." What a bunch of BS.
     
  12. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    We do have a duty to pass along the understanding of our civic, historic and political responsibilities to our posterity. This is not to say that there is any theocratic imperative necessitated, as we are not a theocracy. I know that people that this is a common misconception of people who do not have a basic understanding of the founding of our nation.

    This is not a discussion on Christian traditions. This is not a debate on religion. It is a discussion of the basic civics, history, political philosophy and sociology of God given rights. If you want to discuss Christian traditions, that would be a discussion best had in the religion forum.
     
  13. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. What I introduced was the incontrovertible truth that we are a nation that is founded upon the basic principles of the philosophy of the Enlightenment which gives us our God given rights.

    The purpose of this thread is very clearly stated in the OP, "My purpose here is to explore the basic civics, history, philosophy, and sociology of America and to educate both myself and others on God given rights in doing so." You are welcome to join in on the discussion of this topic.

    One of the benefits of being an American is that you do not have to understand the political philosophical principles to be a beneficiary of those principles.

    You do not have to understand the meaning of God given rights in the context of political philosophy.

    You do not have to be intelligent enough to understand the difference between a religious philosophy or discussion and a political philosophy and discussion.

    You do not have to believe in God to enjoy the fruits of God given rights.
     
  14. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    You do not have to believe in God in order to understand and believe in God given rights.

    Well ya kinda do unless logic isn't something you deal with
     
  15. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    If you want to invoke religion, I will challenge you.
     
  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know. This was supposed to be another one of those banal threads where someone professes that all the French Philosophes were
    of one mind on the concept of god and "God given" rights and therefor the Constitution was intended to be the basis for the New American
    Christian Caliphate ...

    Read it a thousand times - Rousseau,Voltaire, Descartes and Co. must roll over in their graves with every new edition.
     
  17. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    So in other words, no, you'd rather express your disdain for Christianity and make bigoted comments rather than discuss the political
    philosophy?

    Wouldn't it make for a much more interesting discussion to examine the nuances of those philosophers and the Founders beliefs and opinions of them?
     
  18. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    It is only logical to those who know the difference between a religious philosophy and a political philosophy.
     
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    God didn't grant anyone any rights.
    The thread is a fail.
     
  20. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    When you start a thread with "God given rights" don't you think you are the one guilty of precipitating a blurring of those lines?
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You don't understand it either, you used God in your OP.
    No God is mentioned anywhere in the founding documents. A creator and nature. No God.

    Philosophy is just an opinion.
     
  22. CausalityBreakdown

    CausalityBreakdown Banned at Members Request

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    We have to be our own gods, because there's nothing else out there that's going to do it for us. The world has no inherent meaning, so we have no choice but to create one.

    There's nothing exceptional about America. Powerful empires have come and gone since the first emperor realized that if enough men with spears called him a god he could get thousands to believe it. America will live and then die.

    Our educational system is indeed a pity. It doesn't exist to grant understanding of concepts, it's just a series of drills memorized in order to enter the workforce. It's a machine that produces workers rather than a human process by which the individual is enriched.

    Does it matter?

    That the American revolution was part of a wave of revolutions inspired by enlightenment philosophy isn't at all obscure.

    The question is, where did these enlightenment ideals come from? They're a function of the rise of the merchant class out of feudalism. The merchants chafed under the rule of nobles and wanted their own power, and after they revolted they became the modern capitalist class.

    Why should some god's word mean any more than my word or the word of my neighbour? Everyone has an opinion, and I don't see why some hypothetical being's should matter more because he's hypothetically more powerful.

    By the right of mankind. We are clever, we are strong, and we are beautiful. We can proclaim such rights for the good of us all if it pleases us.

    I reject Hobbes and the social contract just as you do. My ideas come from a place of existentialism and materialism. I believe that people are inherently cooperative and that society is a deeply collaborative and mutually beneficial effort that's being held back by the ruling class.

    I'm going to respond point for point so as to present my own viewpoint.

    I believe that our freedom is incomplete. I believe that there is still a class of oppressors that must be fought, and while I commend the founding fathers for their work in revolting against feudalism, I believe that we must move on and learn from them and every other revolution to do so.
     
  23. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I cannot force people to actually read nor understand the entire OP, but I did expect for some to have a knee-jerk reaction to the title as you have.
    "Creator" capital "C" is another word for "God" just as is "Maker" or "Almighty".

    Philosophy
     
  24. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you have comingled the two. You are also being philosophically duplicitous in that you invoke the existence of a deity but you refuse any challenges from that other guy who may not share you beliefs in a deity. You sir are being intellectually dishonest.
     
  25. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    You are free to do so as I am free to ignore your point by point musings which do not address the subject or don't
    contribute to the topic but do betray your complete misunderstanding of the subject at hand. I have no intention
    of getting derailed off topic because people don't bother to even make an attempt to read the precisely expressed
    intentions and purpose of this thread.

    The fact that we have dozens of responses already that fail to understand the spirit of this thread confirms the
    initial impression I have about how Americans have little understanding of the basics.
     

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