God Given Rights

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by PatriotNews, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that the founding fathers were the atheists of their time, and the enlightenment was the atheist movement of its time. In a time when many people were saying that the govt should carry out the will of "god" - these guys were saying that the government should be secular, and should have nothing to do with god.

    I would say - it was the birth of atheism. And so our country was essentially founded on atheist principles.
     
  2. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    There is no 'god' except for those we invented to explain the inexplicable when we were primitive and uninformed. Fortunately many of us have advanced beyond belief in Bronze Age mythology.
     
  3. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    In your first sentence, you make a mistake that says you may have studied history from a more liberal viewpoint. You did correct it, but the Rights that we have which are God given are called unalienable Rights, NOT inalienable rights. Inalienable rights are granted by man. Other than that, you're on the right track.

    Our nation was founded upon the principle that:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Right away you can see that unalienable Rights are those bestowed upon us by a Creator (a God, whomever we deem it to be.) Those Rights are not subject to a popularity vote; cannot be taken nor given away by law; are above the law.

    America became the greatest nation in the annals of history under this founding principle. We not only became the envy of the world, but the most prosperous and the richest. The blessings of Liberty were many and it has not been until we tried to water down our culture by becoming inclusive of every culture in an unmanageable hodge podge of ideologies that America began slipping.

    Be that as it may, Liberty is a natural Right... a God given Right... an unalienable Right. It is a Right we acknowledge by law as the Declaration of Independence is at the head of the United States Code Annotated (the official laws of the United States) and the Bill of Rights is simply those unalienable Rights codified. When we begin defending that founding principle, we will begin regaining the things that made us great.
     
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  4. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Our forefathers did not have any such intention of a separation of church and state. Insofar as the 3/5ths of a man, that was related to representation purposes.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    was Jesus ever mentioned in any of the founders documents?

    http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

    ""Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." "
     
  6. Gaius_Marius

    Gaius_Marius Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not so long ago people were arguing about the divine right of kings. It was bull then as it is bull now to think people have rights bestowed by a magical being.
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    No god has ever granted rights to humans, other than as alleged by some humans. No gods have ever corroborated such an allegation.
     
  8. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    All you are really doing here is attributing to a God (that is not proven to exist) the ability both give and take rights from people (as if rights were a bag of marbles, for example). God says to you "here's your bag of rights (marbles). Now play nice or I will take them." Needless to say, that's silly. First you have to validate the existence of your God because if you can't then the whole world is justified in thinking rights are an illusion.

    In reality, rights are a moral principle that we formulate and apply to humans because they need the guidance of moral principles to survive and prosper in the world.
     
  9. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    When some men claim that a god has granted them rights, the recipients are morally obligated to follow the god's demands in return.

    They cannot just grab the rights and weasel out of the consequent obligations.

    A society that fancies that a particular god has opted for such a deal is obligated to reciprocate in fulfilling the responsibilities the right-granting god decrees.

    If the god they reference issues divine mandates to feed the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless, their democratic self-governance must address those provisions.
     
  10. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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  11. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I have heard that one or two were deists. Creator and God are synonymous. There is no separation of church and state in the Constitution but the founders did not want a state sponsored religion.
     
  12. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    You didn't learn that from me. Perhaps you neglected to actually take the time to read the OP:

    "My purpose here is not to say that you must believe in God in order to believe that the rights that we enjoy are God given rights; Quite the opposite in fact. You do not have to believe in God in order to understand and believe in God given rights."
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if they were God given rights, they would apply to everyone, not just Americans
     
  14. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    There is no separation of church and state in the Constitution.

    Calling a black man 3/5ths of a white man was a victory for the anti-slave founders and for blacks who were in slavery.
    It was a compromise. The slave South wanted to count each slave as one person. That would have given the slave
    states a much greater amount of power in the House of representatives and in selecting the President of the United
    States. Would you rather the slave states had much greater power?

    The idea that rights come from God is a political philosophy designed to guarantee that your rights are secure in that
    no man or government can grant you rights nor take them away. These are rights you inherit at birth.

    Or would you like for some tyrant to tell you what rights you may and may not have?
     
  15. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are no "god-given rights". It is all about power and has nothing to do with any type of deity.
     
  16. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    This is not a discussion of religion or the existence of God. Please do yourself a favor and read the OP before rebutting
    without knowing what it is you are rebutting.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    as long as your admitting there doesn't have to be a God to call them God given rights...sure

    the meaning is, they are natural rights we as a people feel all our citizens should have.....

    .
     
  18. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for correcting me and it is so nice to see someone finally who gets it. Your writing skills are superior to mine and often I am just tapping away at the keyboard as the thoughts come out of my head. Good job.
     
  19. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I believe you are right. There was no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, and even the "establishment" clause only came in with the passage of the Bill of Rights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm sorry but you seem to be missing the point as always.
     
  20. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    If you don't want your fictional 'gods' discussed it helps if you don't bring them up in the first place.
     
  21. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    'Unalienable' and 'inalienable' are synonyms. They mean the same thing.

    http://grammarist.com/usage/inalienable-unalienable/
     
  22. YouLie

    YouLie Well-Known Member

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    If the agnostic or atheist wants to define Creator as primordial sludge, it works just the same. Since your rights are given to you by your Creator, in your case, primordial sludge, they're innate and not granted by the state.
     
  23. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I know that you become upset when I present you with irrefutable facts. You are impotent in confronting them, and so you ignore them.
     
  24. jrr777

    jrr777 Well-Known Member

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    You are missing what is being said here. With the evil people of this town, without killing them, will only lead to a division that would require one of the people to be killed anyways. A house divided cannot stand. So God told them to take out the evil.

    You seem to be defending the evil ones. The ones that do not teach truth and love. Rather teach how to take over a people, and dominate them with brut force. The good will triumph and continue with their good ways. Evil triumphs and you get tyranny, slavery, etc. The point here is one of the peoples (good or evil) must be destroyed. What side are you on?
     
  25. jrr777

    jrr777 Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry to have to inform you, but religion is politics. Political opinions and Beliefs. Wars are fought over either, resources or religion. Therefore making religion in the political forum, relevant.
     

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