God Is Impossible: Problem of Evil

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by mbk734, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    God as we know him, is impossible.
    1. Omnipotent
    2. Omnibenevolent
    3. Omniscient
    The problem of evil is often formulated in two forms: the logical problem of evil and the evidential problem of evil. The logical form of the argument tries to show a logical impossibility in the coexistence of God and evil, while the evidential form tries to show that given the evil in the world, it is impossible that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, and wholly good God.
     
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  2. Market Junkie

    Market Junkie Banned

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    I think even many of these believers, deep-down, know they've been duped, mbk…
     
  3. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where exactly is the problem?

    God created evil for a purpose.

    It didn't exist before that.

    To give humans and angels free will, evil must exist or there is no choice.
     
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  4. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    God is perfect.
    God makes perfect creations.
    Human beings are perfect creations.
    One of the features of a perfect creation is having a free will.
    Humans used their free will to create evil.
    Therefore, God did not create evil, humans did.

    Problem solved. And before you start, just know that if a person is free, God does not bring it about or cause it to be the case that they commit any kind of action or refrain from doing that action. For God to bring it about or cause it to be the case in any manner whatsoever that the person either does or does not do the action, then that person is not really free.

    That's the argument I usually get from atheists - they wanted God to create a world where you are free to do anything as long as it's not evil, which is not only logically impossible, but leaves out the question of what "evil" is.
     
  5. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Human beings are not perfect creations. Nor are human beings creations of any god. Now, about evil. It's what we say it is.
     
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  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God and Evil are similar in that both are entirely dependent on individual or cultural opinion developed by the Human species. Thus are there many differing interpretations of each that are opposing to the beliefs of others. A Muslim in Iraq finds it Godly to murder an infidel that a Christian in the U.S. finds to be an Evil act.

    Basically God is Evil to many and Evil is God to others.
     
  7. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Get with the program, village?
     
  8. d.1m1

    d.1m1 Banned

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    This is in the utopic-non sinful existence. Because 'sin' exists, man and God needs to contend with it. Sin is an act(ion) done by other 'mankind'. Although Christ has purchased all of 'mankind' and has 'freely forgiven'; as He did with the Roman soldiers and those standing around His Crucifixion, He still does not 'force' His cleansing upon those who do not ask or invite HIM to do so.

    Example: Certain 'cultures' which allow other persons of other 'cultures' to represent them.

    'a Korean representing Chinese culture'
    'a White American representing German culture'
    'a 'black American' representing African culture'

    etc....

    Most of the times, Koreans do not represent Chinese culture.
    Most of the times, persons of 'other cultures' do not represent 'other' cultures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I assume you were intending to provide some sort of point or profound commentary but I cannot figure out what it is. Perhaps you might try again with a bit more emphasis placed upon the comprehension aspect?
     
  10. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    There might not be evil in the world. Or more specifically, the good which we identify and the good which God supposedly is may be different interpretations of good. It could be that God's understanding of good is a lot looser than ours, and that there are more evil things which simply don't happen because God prevents it.
     
  11. d.1m1

    d.1m1 Banned

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    You said, God as we know Him is impossible. "God as we know him, is impossible."

    I'm trying to show you that You might not really know God.
     
  12. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any proof of your claim there is a creator and all the rest of it?
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    In the Bible the only things that are evil is not obeying Yahweh completely and not being completely loyal to him.
     
  14. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would make a Holy God Holy if he did not allow the possibility for there to be opposition? That is certainly a hard one to answer....that is unless you feel you know better than the Creator Him/Herself, which is a possibility. How would Love possibly be Love if there were not the possibility of rejection? I would love to hear any profound thoughts.
     
  15. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree totally with your sentiment, but the creation of evil came from a fallen angel that chose to rebel. God allowed that rebellion so that choice could be manifest. God is all about relationship. Relationship, in order to exist, has to allow opposition. Adam followed that opposition along with Eve and the "sin nature" took root in all of us. It is our job in this life to "overcome" and Jesus gave us the power to do so.....an act of Love that we should do our best to emulate.
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Firstly….I didn't say anything.
    Second.....What makes you think he wants to "know" God, it seems kinda prickish.
     
  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I remember back to 60 years ago when I took philosphy 101 and there were some later philosophers who took this tautology on, but cannot recall who they were.

    Nor do I recall their counter arguments. But they exist, unless my memory is total mush.

    If I were to adopt a belief in some God, I would have to go with the outside of this universe computer(metaphorically speaking) that is generating this virtual reality we perceive as the Universe. Such a Creator would not have to be good, all knowing or all powerful. Not sure what the capacity of that virtual reality computer is. Is it infinite? I dunno, but if it does exist it is super intelligent.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  18. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    If God cannot stop genocide and child starvation, then he is not very powerful or loving. If anything people need to have faith in mankind, not a fairy tale.
     
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  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If God stopped genocide. he would not allow human beings that commit it to make the choice to commit genocide. Get it? They have freedom AND responsibility to make that choice. On the other hand, they have the freedom to Love God and Love their neighbor as themselves. Their is a choice....life and death. That is what makes all relationship special. Your own first love would never have held a special place in your heart had she/he been forced to adore you. The choice made it special. How do you tackle this fact? You want to call your very existence a fairy tale??....that is your choice, it just doesn't resonate with what I believe to be true.
     
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  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Evil is a human judgement. For every other creature, there is only what is. Humans make value judgements. "Evil" is that which destroys human coexistence and/or life itself.

    God, in the bible, is said to be love, pure, and unchanging. So if you know of a god who hates anything anytime anywhere, or who is disappointed about anything, or who knows what evil is, you have to decide whether you have a false "god" or a false bible.

    And since evil is a value judgement, it is "created" every time a person judges something to be evil. So god didn't create it. You did.
     
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  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, like Charles Manson is perfect. No evil there.
     
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  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Wow, yeah, those two things were also evil to David Koresh! .... Obedience to him and loyalty to him was required!
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    "Choice" isn't all it's cracked up to be.
     
  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ahhh, but God tells us what is evil.

    We don't get to decide.
     
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  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we don't have the choice to disobey God by committing 'evil', then we don't have choice at all.
     

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