Going Birther on Ted Cruz: I didn’t want to do it

When Trump started to attack Cruz for not being a natural born citizen and therefor ineligible to be president, my first reaction was -despite my loathing for the man and fear of a Cruz presidency- that it is a cheap shot. Of course he is a citizen, I said. His mother was an American Citizen and even though he was undisputedly born in Canada, it is understood that she conveyed her American citizenship to him. As far as I was concerned, “natural born” was ever specifically defined by the founders and therefore there are only two kinds of citizenship…..those who are citizens at birth and those who are naturalized with the former being eligible for the presidency and the latter group not being eligible.
So, while I chose not to pursue it, I did have to muse about the thought of President Obama quietly enjoying the irony.

My first inclination that maybe there was some substance to the claim by Trump was when a report surfaced that raised the question of whether or not his mother was in fact an American citizen at the time of his birth in 1970. (We know, and it is undisputed, that his father was not) It seems that both of his parents appeared on the Canadian voter registration rolls around that time, and that you must be a Canadian citizen to vote. So it is possible that his mother relinquished her American Citizenship at some point, and possible before his birth, which of course would be a game changer.

But regardless of his mother’s citizenship at the time of his birth, it is in fact a good deal more complicated than that, as is brought out in the articles below. Keep in mind that this is strictly a legal question and should not be about politics. The fact is that he is an American and there is no reason to believe that he has any foreign loyalties which was the fear of the founders of our country. He came to the United States at the age of four and his situation does not affect his eligibility in any substantive way. It is wholly a technical matter. However, imagine the turmoil that we would experience if he were elected president and subsequently, a viable challenge to his eligibility was mounted. Hell, it is already causing some degree of turmoil, as though there was not enough already.

Finally, I will say that I would still rather not go down this road and indeed it is not necessary to defeat Cruz. There already is more than enough to disqualify him as “the leader of the free world” and even as a human being….but the issue of eligibility is before us, so let’s have at it.

Here are a few interesting articles to kick it off. Please read all in their entirety before commenting in the hope that this can be an informed and intelligent exchange on the subject. Again, to be clear, I am not personally taking a position on his eligibility. It is an open discussion that should be about that and that only, as opposed to his politics.

And there is more. His situation is very different from that of others who the birthers have targeted, namely Obama and Rubio…….

 

You don't have to be in the military to be a natural born US citizen born overseas.. You just have to have one or more American parents.

Babies are born to expat Americans all over the world every day.. You simply register the birth at the nearest US Consulate.

 

Did you read the articles? It seems that you did not. It's complicated.

 

My siblings are all citizens at birth born in oil camps overseas.

The question as to whether or not Cruz's mother voted as a Canadian citizen is a good one.. that would require documentation not simply rumor.

 

I too did a lot of reading on this and discovered this question has not been answered legally as a technicality. Cruz is certainly a citizen but the 'natural born' is not completely settled..

 

Obama and Rubio were both BORN IN THE USA so they should not be talked about in the same breath as Rafael !!

 

That is true because we never had anyone running who was not born within the boundaries of the USA or within an Organized territory of the USA as Goldwater was or in an US Administrative Territory as McCain was.

As everyone will recall the Demoncrats did not make any serious challenges to either of these guys over eligibility. Funny that a fellow Republican Trump is making a big Trumpacity out of the Rafael Cruz eligibility.

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That is basically one parent must be an American Citizen....

 

I think a fellow Republican raising this issues is way beyond Hillary or the Democrats doing it. It taints Trump as someone who will use any dirty trick in the book to win even against his friends and fellow party members. In this he now stands side by side with Hillary and the Democrats.

He did it to win Iowa, to bring Cruz's numbers down. He didn't attack Cruz on his ideas, solutions, visions, but on him being born in Canada. Trump didn't let us know where Cruz's conservative ideals are wrong and his are right, he brought up the birther issue in search of votes. He did something that everyone of use expects the Democrats to do, so who is more underhanded? Trump or the Democrats?

What ever happened to Reagan's 11th amendment? Haven't the Republicans learned anything from 2012 and the the negative personal attacks made by the candidates back then which harmed Romney in the general election? His negative personal attacks painted him as a mean man. That stuck, Obama won.

 

The issue of the meaning of "natural born citizen" with respect to the presidency is being raised. It is separate and apart from the meaning of citizenship in general.

 

Honey, there are only two kinds of citizenship.. naturalized and natural born.

 

This is simply wrong, and don't bother waving his degrees in my face, wrong is wrong. Children of the "Sovereign" were always considered children of the realm, even if born abroad. WE are the Sovereigns, no one else. And when we are citizens the children born to us are citizens. So bring your lawsuit, seek your declaratory judgement that I'm wrong. Never going to happen. The case is exactly as I stated.

So shut up and sue.

 

Ted was born in Canada and lived there for the first four years of his life, and he immigrated to the United States when he was four years old. This does not make him a natural born citizen. This makes him a citizen at birth. He renounced His Canadian citizenship in 2014. Ted Cruz is not eligible to run for president.

 

False. Ted was born in Canada and immigrated to the US when he was four. His mother being American means jack (*)(*)(*)(*). He's a Cuban Canuck.

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And Ted is naturalized and not eligible to run.

 

If he was born to an American mother while she was an American citizen, I believe he is eligible.

 

The issue isn't whether kids born abroad are American citizens, it is whether there is more than one class of American citizens and whether there are classes of American citizens which are ineligible to be president. No one disputes that people who did not posses US citizenship at birth but became citizens through a legal process are not eligible. That isn't what happened to Ted, but his story is complicated.

In Cruz's case, the issue is whether birth on US territory is also a constitutional requirement. The interpretation of the Constitution is the job of the Supreme Court, ot the Congress. The birtherism directed against Obama gives the Cruz case political energy. The astounding political activism of the Court as seen in Bush versus Gore shows a Court willing to wade into presidental politics. The Bush versus Gore ruling was decisive; a ruling on the Cruz case would not be so unless he was already the winner in the Electoral College when the case was taken up and he was then disqualified. That would be a wild ride!

 

First of all, why are you yelling at me o shut up? I made it clear that, although I despise Cruz, I was not taking a position either way on the legal issue.

Secondly, how can you be so (*)(*)(*)(*) sure of yourself when others seem to be raising legitimate questions about his eligibility? Where is your law degree from and how involved have you been in this use, really?

 

Nope.. While I don't like Cruz and won't vote for him, he is a natural born US citizen and never was required to apply for US citizenship or go thru the naturalization process.

 

Next time you really "don't want to do it" please keep "it" under 200 words.

 

Yelling? Who is yelling.

There are no legitimate issues.

You have a credentialed Lib spitting crap, we've seen them before, we aren't impressed, so I dared you file suit and assured you that your suit would go no where. I'm right, it's utter bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and if you don't believe me, go file.

You brought up common law, and I told you the very clear standard in common law, which I noticed, you have not addressed in your response. In Common Law, the children of the Sovereign are citizens of the realm, no matter where they are born. In America WE are the sovereigns. Our children are citizens no matter where they are born.

You want to flap your gums, you are free to do so. You want to test your position, go file suit.

 

WRONG.

Ted was a citizen of the USA at birth.

 

Perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court should decide the matter once and for all.

 

a Natural Born citizen, is one who attained citizenship at birth.

Cruz had US citizenship at birth, according to US law.

now, if we don't want to give birthright citizenship to babies born of American parents overseas, we need to change the law.

 

YOU were yelling when you told me to shut up and you're still yelling. You seem rather fired up and quit arrogant. The reference to common law was made in the article that I posted and to be honest, I can't defend it any better than was done there. Unlike you I'm not pretending to know, or deluding myself into thinking that I know the answer. I simply presented the issue as seen by some who are more learned that either you or I for the purpose of discussion. I have no intention of filing suit and it may well be that there is no one who has standing to do so, until and if he is elected president.

 

The way the law actually works aside, my opinion on the whole citizen/half-citizen/non-citizen thing is simple.

If you were born to an American citizen here or anywhere else in the world, either the father or mother, you are an American citizen and there should be nothing you are barred from.

Just my opinion, I know the actual law may differ.

 

Obama claims to have been born in Hawaii but has furnished no authentic proof. He likely was born in Kenya as early reports from family and his self showed. He would not be "natural born" as his mother did not meet the age/residency requirement. Cruz's mother did. It's most likely Obama was not eligible to be president, but Cruz is.

I realize there are technicalities and interpretations to be ironed out.