Good guys with no guns more successful at stopping bad guys

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The trends I refer to are from the government’s own figures. You can access them yourself. You figure they are not relevant? Really?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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  2. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I find it interesting in this thread that there is a person from Australia and a person from Scotland making suggestions how Americans might better deal with gun control. I hope they remember the fact that my father's generation of Americans saved their nations with American guns.
     
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  3. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Ironically Huntsville Alabama was where I lived
     
  4. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    So having been nowhere else does ?
     
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does what? By the way you're talking to a guy who has lived outside the US more than inside it.

    I know exactly what a lot of the world is like.
     
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  6. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    It might be a good idea except in the most dangerous areas of the United States. Way too many private citizens are gunned down by US cops.
     
  7. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    How many unarmed citizens were killed by police last year?

    “This year, fatal shootings of unarmed people have declined, continuing a trend over the past two years. In the first six months of this year, 27 unarmed people were fatally shot, compared with 34 for the same period in 2016 and 50 in the first six months of 2015.”

    On the other hand 135 officers were killed in 2016.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  8. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Why an exception for "the most dangerous areas"?
     
  9. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Kleck was not the only researcher involved in the 2013 CDC study commissioned by President Obama.

    Also, not everyone believes Kleck's (Kleck - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck ) research is flawed:
    -- Marvin Wolfgang https://scholarlycommons.law.northw...a.org/&httpsredir=1&article=6854&context=jclc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Wolfgang

    Professor Wolfgang, a Philadelphia resident, was acknowledged in 1994 by the British Journal of Criminology as ''the most influential criminologist in the English-speaking world.''

    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/18/us/marvin-e-wolfgang-73-dies-leading-figure-in-criminology.html

    https://academic.oup.com/bjc


    When you say "in more than 100% of burglaries" you are indicating that there are fewer than 2.5 million burglaries. 2.5 million would be a majority but far from the total burglaries and only about 16% of property crimes (burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson). So as you can see from those numbers if defensive use of a gun occurred in only 16% of the total property crimes in the U.S. it would be 2.5 million.

    Another interesting aspect of the defensive use of a gun is the fact that we will never be able to establish a truly accurate number of the times it happens. Often times the attempted crime is stopped when the victim produces a gun and nothing is ever reported.

    I was talking with a guy a while back who runs a small repair shop on his country property. He mentioned have been awakened by some kind of noise one night last summer. Grabbing his rifle he quietly stepped onto his porch and watched as two people emerged from his shop carrying some of the tools with which he makes his living. He said he fired three rounds into the dirt and they dropped the tools and took off running. When I asked what he did then, he said he put the tools back in the shop and went back to bed. He added with a smile: "they won't be back". No crime reported, no defensive use of gun reported.

    In a recent news report I saw where a woman had just dropped her young kid at school and failed to lock her car door. At a stop light a man opened the door and demanded she get out of the car. She refused and he started punching her. When that didn't work he grabbed her hair and tried to pull her from the car. She grabbed her gun and when the guy saw it he ran. She called the police so it likely would have been reported as an assault but did anyone bother to also report it as a defensive use of a gun?

    Everything I have read on defense use of a gun indicates pretty much the same thing: statistics are vague at best. So let's do this, let's knock the numbers way back. Instead of 2.5 million how about 250,000 or maybe only 25,000. If there were only 25,000 instances of the defensive use of a gun that may be 25,000 lives saved. It is possible that every person who uses a gun for defense is one less number added to that almost 12,000 murders a year.

    Would you take away people's ability to defend themselves?

    I don't know a large number of people (That would be apparent as I am on a forum on Friday night) but I don't know anyone in my home state who doesn't own a gun. Most of the people I know will probably never use a gun for self-defense but the reason they don't have to is because criminals know most people in this area own guns. The fact that people around here own guns and are not afraid to use them for protection is why we have a low crime rate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Waving your hands in the air and saying " it is out there somewhere" is beyond poor debate Technique and edging into " I could not be arsed because I might find contrary information"
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Geeeze mate can you précis your responses?

    Not even remotely interested in reading that much right wing bull
     
  12. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    That would explain your behavior.
     
  13. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    And therein lies the problem.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    You
    No waving; you could query the numbers yourselve, as can anyone with Google access. Referencing commonly available facts aren’t poor debate technique when they are commonly available. The numbers and trends are not in dispute, but feel free to challenge them if you don’t believe them from the many posts referencing them. Query US violent crime decreasing, guns increasing and show how many sources argue that the numbers are incorrect.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryb...n-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/#63601aaf3f7c. It show any query showing this is incorrect and we can discuss that. Short that, the trends remain unexplained by those the sell the more guns = more crime narrative.
     
  15. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Yeah that is way too many on both sides of the equation
     
  16. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    I've given you figures and links from the FBI and the ATF.
     
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  17. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't really believe you :wink:
     
  18. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly in 2016 no unarmed civilians were shot dead by the police in the UK and no officers were killed either. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  19. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You seem to say that more than a few times.
     
  20. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    OK ..... So can you cite an example of any other time I have ever said it then ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018

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